04 Jul2009

steak rest

A relatively new visitor who discovered the blog a few weeks ago, Hill Roberts, left this comment on my previous post which included a couple of steaks grilled over charcoal:

“Hi, MM.
YOu said, “let the steak rest for 7-8 minutes before eating it…”my goodness, that steak would be very cold by then, and no way am I going to eat cold steak. I mean, steaks should be eaten hot…In Europe, because steaks or beef is cheaper since they are not imported, we eat them at least three times a week since my husband grew up on the farm in England. However, it’s always nice to grill steaks just before people sit down for lunch/dinner, then serve beef sizzling hot. I wouldn’t even dream of telling people to eat steaks 7-8 minutes after cooking…this time, MM, your advice is rather wrong. Besides, the steaks shown above look dry. In fact, one of them is a T-bone really. I am a big steak eater like my husband, so I do know my beef, the cut, and the best prime beef is the fillet of beef. Angus is Scottish origin, not American, and rather overrated. British beef is still the best. Sadly, they don’t import it over there in the Philippines.”

The quick retort for the benefit of regulars would have been “fishpan” or worse “copper fishpan”. But not everyone who visits this blog is a regular, nor have they gone through the majority of posts in the archives, so since I am bored and jetlagged, I decided to write this post to address the matter further. Isn’t it odd that the last time I wrote something like this, I think on snipes, I was also jetlagged? After a very exhilirating and tiring holiday, it is often difficult to start writing regular blog posts despite the backlog of material, but there’s nothing like a little “challenge” to get my brain churning and momentum going, so here it goes. Hill, you may not know what hit you, but it’s the proverbial smack with one of Marketman’s fishpans… If you dish it, at least be prepared to take what’s dished right back at you.

First of all, this blog is written from my point of view… which means it’s how I choose to do things. Differing opinions are welcome, if done in a reasonable manner. I don’t expect everyone to do it “my way” at all, but when someone takes a highly tonal exception (the comment equivalent of shrill or uppity) to something I have written, and I feel I am fairly confident about my position and can site sufficient opinion, personal experience and credible resource material, then I sometimes feel the need to elaborate. My suggesting to Joey, and other readers, that one should let their steak rest is based on how I do it, to good results, and on the dozens of references in cookbooks, magazines, cooking shows, reference guides, etc. that say the same thing. I never attended cooking school, so I can’t explain the science, but the “rest period” AFTER GRILLING does work for me. And for MANY, MANY other authoritative folks in the field of cookery, as I will illustrate below. As for your disagreeing and doing it a different way, that’s perfectly fine for you, but since you seem to suggest I am a bit loopy or daft or simply “WRONG” because of the “meat rest” suggestion, read on for my response…

My comment is NOT based solely on my personal experience. And while I don’t eat steak 3 times a week, I am a carnivore. Some of the grilled or roasted (not braised, stewed, stir-fried, raw, barbecued, in soups, etc.) beef I have either cooked or eaten AND written posts about include:

An Angus Rib Roast
Filet Mignon with a Bacon & Port Sauce
Snake River Farms Wagyu Sirloin Steaks
Grilled Milk-fed Veal Chops
A Prime Rib Roast by Sister from Lobel’s in New York
Roast Beef and Yorkshire Pudding at a Holiday Dinner
Several Porterhouse Steaks at Peter Luger’s in Brooklyn New York
A Veal Roast at Sister’s
“Cowgirl” Steaks with Foie Gras
Grilled Wagyu Beef Salad, Version 1.0
Grilled Wagyu Beef Salad, Version 2.0
Yet Another Roast Beef at a Holiday Dinner in 2006
Angus Ribeye Roast Beef, with discussion over resting the roast included
A Bistecca a la Fiorentina/Florentine Porterhouse Steak, Raw
A 1.2 Kilo Bistecca a la Fiorentina I Ate at Buca Lapi, Florence
Steaks at Myron’s
Locally Raised Wagyu Beef
Roast Rack of Veal
Angus Roast Beef Belly (but oops, subsequently pan-fried)
Buying A Roast at the International Meat Market in Astoria, Queens
A Beef Bulalo Shampoo (hahaha! a bit of levity in the midst of lifting a fish pan)… :)
Window Shopping at the Venerable Meat Shop, Lobel’s in New York
Steaks at Mamou
My Favorite Scene from the movie “No Reservations” where Catherine Zeta-Jones emerges from the kitchen with a steak impaled on a a large fork and forcibly whacks it onto the table in front of a bitchy customer… (hahaha, another bit of beef levity)
Superb Sunday Lunch at Antonio’s, Tagaytay
A Saturday Steak Dinner With Friends
A side mention of the populat lunch dish “Steak Frites” at Les Halles in New York, where Anthony Bourdain used to be the Executive Chef
Flank Steak

In addition to these posts, I can say that I have consumed beef in London (even worked there briefly), Paris, Barcelona, all over Italy, North America, Australia and Japan; if there is one continent I am dying to go to for beef, despite the jet-lag, it would be South America. I say this solely to put any fears you might have that my experience with beef, or steak, while not thrice weekly fare, is reasonably broad. And if you have never experienced top quality Kobe Beef, or a variation of it, I wouldn’t be so smug about promoting British beef as the best on the planet. I am sure there is pretty good beef in several countries. Price isn’t always an accurate gauge of quality, but with superb Japanese Kobe Beef selling for some 10-20x or so British beef, you have to wonder at the very least. But let’s not trade the boys proverbial game of seeing who can pee the the furthest. You may be a brilliant cook and brava to that. And you may certainly choose to serve your steak straight from the grill without a rest, but I hardly think my advice to let the meat rest is CATEGORICALLY WRONG, as you seem to be so certain of stating in your comment.

But let’s ignore my personal experience and advice, and see what others, presumably far more expert and well-schooled than I am, have to say about the matter, shall we? I apologize for this list of just 15 published references, but the books I have devoted to grilling are out at the beach, where I do a majority of my grilling… And I didn’t bother to do any internet searches as these have enough to say from folks who are in my opinion, pretty professional…

1. In Harold McGee’s highly respected book “On Food And Cooking, The Science and Lore of the Kitchen” he states, on page 165:

“After The Cooking: Resting, Carving, and Serving….A meat dish can be cooked perfectly and yet disappoint if it’s mishandled on the way to the table….. Large oven roasts should be allowed to rest at least a half hour before carving… (and for beef/steaks in general)… As the temperature drops, the meat structure becomes firmer and more resistant to deformation, and its water-holding capacity increases. Cooling therefore makes the meat easier to carve and reduces the amount of fluid lost during carving.”

2. In Bruce Aidells and Denis Kelly’s “The Complete Meat Cookbook”, in a recipe for Beefsteak Florentine, that spectacular porterhouse of Chianina beef, on page 106:

After grilling… “Let the steak rest, covered loosely with foil, for 10 minutes or so before carving.”

3. In David Walzog and Andrew Friedman’s “The New American Steakhouse Cookbook” on the topic of grilling steak, on page 123:

“When steaks are being cooked, the meat contracts and the blood (sic) (it’s fluids, not blood) runs to the center of the steak. The steaks need time to rest before serving, 4 to 5 minutes to allow blood to come back to the edges of the meat and for the tissue to expand.”

4. In Keith McNally, Riad Nasr and Lee Hanson’s “The Balthazar Cookbook”, in a recipe for Steak au Poivre on page 135:

“Let the steaks rest for 10 minutes before serving.”

5. In Alice Water’s book “The Art of Simple Food”, she the proprietress of the famous Chez Panisse, on Grilled Steak, on pages 154-155:

“After you take the steak off the grill, let it rest a few minutes before serving to stabilize the internal juices so that they don’t run out excessively when the steak is cut into. If it’s not to be served right away, cover it loosely with foil to help keep it warm…”

And in a recipe for Grilled Sirloin Steak with Herbs, she states:

“Remove from the grill and let rest for 5 minutes before serving.”

6. In last December’s issue of Saveur Magazine on the topic of “Everything You Need to Know About Filet Mignon”, in a recipe for Herb-Crusted Beef Tenderloin with Horseradish Sauce, on page 89:

“Let roast rest on a cutting board for 30 minutes.”

And in case you are thinking this man only has American books and cooks quoted, let me shift to some American published books by several chefs better known for their French cuisine:

7. In “Anthony Bourdain’s Les Halles Cookbook”, on pages 127 and 131:

In a recipe for Onglet Gascon – “Place the steaks on the plate to rest.”

And in a recipe for Steak Au Poivre – “Remove the pan from the oven and remove the steaks from the pan to rest. Have I told you yet to ALWAYS rest your meat after cooking? I’ve told you now.”

8. In Thomas Keller’s (often cited as the BEST CHEF IN THE U.S.) book “Bouchon”, on page 209:

In a recipe for Bavette a la Bordelaise or Skirt Steak with Caramelized Shallots and Red Wine Jus – “after cooking, remove meat from the heat and transfer to a baking pan. Set aside (to rest) while you cook the shallots.”

9. In “Patricia Wells at Home in Provence” in a recipe for City Steak, using a “cote de boeuf au gros sel, or a thick, single prime rib of beef” on page 259:

After cooking… “Loosely tent with foil and set aside in a warm place to allow the meat to uniformly absorb the juices, at least 15 minutes.”

10. In “Jacques Pepin’s Table”, first published 18 years ago, so this tip isn’t anything “new”, on page 285:

In a recipe for Pan Seared or Grilled Marinated Flank Steak – “(after cooking) return the meat to the marinade, and place it uncovered, in the warm oven to “relax” and continue cooking in its own heat for a least 10 minutes and up to 40 minutes.”

And finally, since you mention English beef, here is a representative sampling of my English/Australian cookbooks within easy reach:

11. In Leanne Kitchen’s “The Butcher” on page 27:

On the topic of Roasting Beef – “Once cooked, rest your roast for 20 minutes (but longer for a very large joint) at warm room temperature, covered loosely with foil – on top of the stove is ideal. A roast will continue to cook a little as it rests, so allow for this in your cooking calculations.”

12. In Jennifer McLagan’s book “Fat”, on pages 175 and 188:

On the topic of Roast Beef with all the trimmings – “Transfer the beef to a warm platter, cover it loosely with aluminum foil, and allow it to rest for 30 minutes before carving.”

And in a recipe for Grilled Steak – “(after grilling) Let the steaks rest, loosely covered with aluminum foil, for 10 minutes.”

13. In Skye Gyngell’s wonderful book “A Year in My Kitchen”, of the highly acclaimed Petersham Nurseries Cafe near London, on page 82:

In a recipe for char-grilled salt-crusted fillet of beef – “Lift the meat back on to the tray and allow to sit for another 2-3 minutes.”

14. In Jamie Oliver’s “Cook with Jamie, My Guide to Making You a Better Cook”, on page 157:

In a recipe for Grilled Fillet Steak – “Remove from the grill on to a dish and rest for 5 minutes.”

15. In Nigella Lawson’s book “Feast”, on page 337:

In a recipe for T-bone Steak – “(after cooking) let it rest for 10 minutes.”

So there. I am sure there are hundreds of recipes and cookbooks that don’t bother to mention letting meat rest after it’s cooked, but it isn’t as bizarre as you might think. And as for the rest of your comment, I never said Angus was American in origin, just that the steaks I have access to here generally are from Angus cattle, and they are raised in America. Beef from England was actually BANNED in the Philippines for a while due to mad cow disease. As for English beef being the best, I am sure that is up for a lively debate. My personal vote biases Japanese Kobe/Wagyu Beef, whose original stock hundreds of years ago were a gift from England, if I am not mistaken. Amazing what the Japanese did to improve on the original. As for the steaks looking dry in the photos, that is your opinion. We ate them and they were nice and succulent. As for the possible confusion over cuts or grades of meat, the steaks in the photo were cut from a Prime Rib Roast, apparently American nomenclature. They are what is referred to as a “Cowboy Steak” from local butchers. And to add to the confusion, a Prime Rib Roast isn’t necessarily graded Prime. Confused, look it up if it troubles you. You may think you know your beef, and how to cook it, but I think for now I would personally take the advice of the 15 or so chefs/authors/sources I cited above (Ms. Waters, Mr. Bourdain, Mr. Keller, Mr. McGee, Mr Aidells, etc.) much more readily, thank you.

So yes, I do allow my beef and other meats as well, whether roasts or steaks, to REST for a few minutes. And since the ambient temperature in Manila is often 90F, I don’t bother to tent it with foil unless it is a roast. And it does stay warm. And frankly, Hill, you can continue eating your steaks any which way you please. Maybe even do your own blog on the merits of letting your steaks nap or eating them seconds off the flames. It isn’t a big deal, really. And it isn’t WRONG for you to do as you please. Just as I don’t think it is WRONG for me to suggest to my readers that you let cooked meat rest.

This post certainly cured the jet lag. Nothing like a fishpan moment to liven things up a bit. And just in time, because I have to take one last short trip before cocooning back home for the next few months. :)

P.S. For the 40+% of Marketmanila readers based in the United States, have a good Fourth of July Holiday Weekend!

 

COMMENTS:

  1. Andrei says:

    Oh dear.

    Fishpan alert!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 12:53 am

     
  2. gtrine says:

    heeheeheehee this was an amusing way to wake up for my 4th of july weekend. Great response Pigman.

    British beef is the best … *snark* … LOL

    Jul 4, 2009 | 12:58 am

     
  3. Alan says:

    All I can say is “WOW”! That should learn ’em. ;)

    Jul 4, 2009 | 1:08 am

     
  4. jp says:

    ouch. good one mm. that sure should put hill in her place. she sure sounded snobbish and i can’t wait for her response, if ever she still has the face to do so. anyway, even when we grill liempo in the house, my mom would always let the meat rest before we slice it.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 1:10 am

     
  5. rvinno says:

    way to go MM!

    I love the way you cited your references!

    I am a 22 year old Medical Student who cooks as a form or stress relief. I’ve never been to Europe, nor tasted Kobe and Wagyu beef. I have tried Angus beef though, and I really can’t say which beef is the best.. BUT ONE THING IS FOR SURE:

    Yes, I Let My Meat Rest After Grilling or Roasting It… :)

    Haha, I hope this woman knows what she said, “I wouldn’t even dream of telling people to eat steaks 7-8 minutes after cooking…this time, MM, your advice is rather wrong.”, well, GOOD THING your husband does the cooking then, just stay on the table ma’am, and never ever dare go near an oven or a kitchen.

    I’m sorry, I can’t really help myself, RESTING is sooooo basic, every cooks know that.. hahaha

    Jul 4, 2009 | 1:11 am

     
  6. Joey in Dubai says:

    British beef the best?

    Did you mention ‘mad cow’, MM?

    Jul 4, 2009 | 1:17 am

     
  7. GayeN says:

    It’s past 1am here in Manila and I was wide awake while reading this post…I haven’t heard/read/watched anything/anyone instructing me not to let any grilled/roasted meat rest for a couple of minutes before serving…fishpan alert indeed…hehehe

    Jul 4, 2009 | 1:18 am

     
  8. chad says:

    Aren’t we overlooking the fact that its COLDER in Europe?

    Jul 4, 2009 | 1:20 am

     
  9. Batangueno says:

    Ka MM, ang galing ng respans…bilib na bilib talaga ako sa’nyo sir. Sa akin lang ekspiryens, kung ang lokasyon ay sa labas ng bahay – tulad sa Europa – ay sugab agab sa steyk, lalong lalo na kung medyo mahangin o malamig. Pero tama kayo walang tama o mali…kahit paano pwede.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 1:27 am

     
  10. dhayL says:

    Very well said indeed! :)

    Jul 4, 2009 | 1:28 am

     
  11. rvinno says:

    Oh, I take back what I said about your husband doing the cooking since it was never indicated in your post. It’s past 1am here and I’m sleepy, I just couldn’t let this fishpan moment pass.

    I still think you should rest your meat AFTER cooking.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 1:30 am

     
  12. Lizzy says:

    Happy Fourth to you as well, MM. I’ve got my steaks ready for the weekend bbq, and guess what? I’ll be resting them for several minutes before I serve them. This works for me, too. ;)

    Jul 4, 2009 | 1:30 am

     
  13. Lissa says:

    Love. It.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 1:30 am

     
  14. Katherine says:

    Well well well said, MM.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 1:32 am

     
  15. mabuhay says:

    patay ka,walang pinapalagpas si mm, lalo na pag tama sya.

    hala, sagot!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 2:01 am

     
  16. aggy says:

    well done, mm! backed up by thorough research is the best way to go! tc!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 2:27 am

     
  17. Jackie says:

    Am I reading this right? you guys apreciate eating steak after 7 – 8 minutes? Imagine going to a restarurant and being served with a cold steak(in 8 minutes dont expect it to be hot) How about those steaks at the SM foodcourt(Sizzlin Steak, Sizzlin blah-blah) why do they have to serve it on a sizzlin plate anyway?

    Jul 4, 2009 | 2:29 am

     
  18. bagito says:

    Nothing like a good “fishpan” moment to get the 4th of July weekend bbq started! Tomorrow (it’s only July 3 here in the US), I will make sure our meat rests after taking it off the grill! ;-)

    Jul 4, 2009 | 2:29 am

     
  19. Angela says:

    LOL! This is too amusing :) Can you say ‘fishpan’?

    I personally eat my steaks as soon as it’s off the grill (no rest period) because I like my food to be piping hot. But I wouldn’t begrudge anyone their desire to do as they please with their steaks. Ever.

    Tsk, tsk, Hill. It’s not what you say, dear. It’s how you say it.

    Welcome back, MM!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 2:31 am

     
  20. calorie-shmalorie says:

    (i’m imagining them dining on the best BSE-pedigreed British steaks… in a frigid environment, hence the need to consume it sizzling hot)

    steaks uncovered while resting?

    Jul 4, 2009 | 2:33 am

     
  21. Batangueno says:

    Joey in Dubai, medyo OT pero may katawa-tawa akong karanasan tungkol sa mad cow. Minsan ay napadpad ako sa Manchester, England. Ito ay noong kalakasan ng mad cow. Isang araw ay nagtanghalian kami sa isang TGIF. Lahat ng mga kasawa ko ay puti. Isa-isa kaming nag-order. Karamihan ay lamb o kaya naman ay baboy ang inorder. Ako naman, dahil siguro sa gutom, ay walang malay na nag-order ng hamburger (yung baka). Ang sarap ah, sabi ko. Nang matapos kami kumain ay napag-isip-isipan ko: aba, ako lang ang nag-order ng beef…oo nga no…anak ng tikbalang!%#@+! baka ma-ulol ako nito! Langya talaga mga kasama ko, hindi man lang ako binigyan ng warning. Lahat kasi sila ay mga Ingles at ayaw siguro nilang ikahiya ang sarili nilang baka.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 2:54 am

     
  22. happyman says:

    LOL to “British beef is still the best. Sadly, they don’t import it over there in the Philippines.” I wonder if he/she has tried beef from Texas or Argentina or Alberta of Kobe or Batangas or ….

    Jul 4, 2009 | 2:57 am

     
  23. Naz says:

    You might think this is bizarre but I had eaten beef raw and it was really good. On board a ship where the cooks were preparing some “steamboat round” roast, one of the cooks cut one of these raw, hunk of meat into bite size pieces, put lots of Tabasco, onions, lemon and soy sauce. I tell you what, it was really really good.
    So, I ate my steak not just cold but also RAW and who dare say I was wrong?

    Jul 4, 2009 | 3:07 am

     
  24. izang says:

    ahahaha…

    i like the “when someone takes a highly tonal exception (the comment equivalent of shrill or uppity)….

    uppity…uppity..uppity….

    she never knew what hit her….mad cow, maybe…hehehe

    Jul 4, 2009 | 3:21 am

     
  25. bebot says:

    Happy 4th of July, it is still the 3rd here but I am doing chicken inasal Marketman style, sure it is not beef but will make sure it rest he..he.he and BTW Hill you are now over the hill:)

    Jul 4, 2009 | 3:28 am

     
  26. Batangueno says:

    “Aren’t we overlooking the fact that its COLDER in Europe?”

    Chad, hindi totoo yan. Kahit sa Finland, Denmark, Sweden ay umiinit din ng husto kapag tag-araw – lalong lalo na sa Espanya, timog Italya at Greece. Ang klima sa Europa ay halos katulad lang ng Amerika.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 3:32 am

     
  27. pegi says:

    SUPER , MR.MM! What a way to wake me up at this muggy morning in CA.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 3:57 am

     
  28. hill roberts says:

    Hi, MM!
    At least, your site has stopped being boring…Am I the first to give a straight, off the cuff personal opinion? Now, your site has become more interesting, thanks to the many derogatory remarks I am taking, with the excitement of a good Wimbledon match, which I have just watched. MM, I have no wish to make any more comments on beef…that’s over and out…indeed, I have no wish to instigate another interesting discussion, unless you come up with another topic…but, hey, I’m a sport, I can take criticism. Can you? Besides, if all those “visitors” keep agreeing with you, what’s left of the site? There’s so much swooning, swooning, swooning…everyone is afaid to give a down-to-earth comment to make the site nitty-gritty. Look, I am not playing the devil’s advocate. I have no wish to compete with a Chef of your calibre. However, am I not entitled to give my own personal opinion, instead of other visitors and you ganging up on me? I have given you an opinion, but to conclude that I’m “fishpan”, “over the hill, etc is something that I don’t mind you guys would want to call me. I don’t believe in name-calling, that’s your personal opinion, and well, I respect it. Anyway, your jetlagged has now been put on hold, your mind is more active now despite long travel, and good to know you are back and alert as ever. I just wish youd’ allow people to disagree and enjoy a good discussion, instead of “praise, praise, praise”. Is that what you really, really want, MM? That sounds very diva to me, if you ask me. Diva or not, carry on and let’s enjoy a banter or two without getting too personal. Yeah, yeah, yeah, you are well-travelled. No one is disputing that. There’s no need to beat your chest over it. I, too, am a big traveller but only because Europe is small and anyone has that privilege of seeing many countries in Europe…Cheers!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 4:05 am

     
  29. Ubs says:

    5 minutes is enough for me. Any longer and I would die! :D

    Jul 4, 2009 | 4:09 am

     
  30. Anbu says:

    hill roberts, don’t sweat it. It’s not uncommon for folks who give a different opinion to be countered with an exceptionally well thought out retort that, on the surface at least, screams diva. The trick is to give your opinion in the most inoffensive way possible.

    As for the issue of resting, I personally like to let my meat rest. I would love to find a method though that lets me enjoy the best of both worlds – hot AND juicy meat.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 4:24 am

     
  31. sister says:

    Just remember, it’s cold in England, June or December and hot in the Philippines all year. We are all entitled to a personal opinion and I’m all for a lively discussion, after all, the fishpan came from me. Eat what you like, whenever you like, however you like it, no one really cares how you do it for yourself, and that applies to everyone as far as I’m concerned… Fourth of July opens the grilling season in the US and I’m sure steaks are being cooked a hundred and one ways, to each his own.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 4:28 am

     
  32. Thel from Florida says:

    Give it to her MM! She still doesn’t understand the fact that it’s how she said it! baka talagang na-mad cow eating too much English beef

    Jul 4, 2009 | 4:53 am

     
  33. Ana says:

    i love british beef. and yes, i thought it was far tastier to what i can buy in the markets in manila. and is comparable to south american beef. sadly, i haven’t tasted kobe beef. ang mahal e.
    anyway, what tastes good is rather personal. i guess since this is the marketman’s blog, he can write what he pleases. but really, with or without hill’s comments, i never found this blog boring. it’s my link to home.
    it’s 26C out there at the moment (actually 31C inside my house!), no worries about getting your food cold. i don’t let my meat rest after bbq-ing. i like them sizzling hot as well. i only rest big roasts, those that needed carving. but yes, it’s my preference, just because i don’t think my tastebuds notice the difference anyway.
    happy 4th of July to those from the US of A.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 5:30 am

     
  34. Lilibeth says:

    Very well said, Marketman. Hope you have a nice weekend too as we fire up our grills for the 4th of July weekend. I bought rib eye steaks and lobster tails for our surf and turf menu and of course, I will rest my steaks after grilling like I always do. I also tent it loosely with foil.

    And to hill roberts: Marketman has never barred anyone from disagreeing with him, in fact, what I like about him is that he is open to criticism and even posting his failed attempts in some recipes and even asking for suggestions. He is humble enough to admit when he is wrong but is also aggressive in rebutting if he knows he is correct, which is what happened in your case. Also, we are not “swooning” and no one is “afraid to give a down-to-earth comment” here but we also know how to say it in a proper, constructive, and inoffensive way and we make sure we check out our information too before doing so. Lastly, correction please: this site is in no way boring at all. Maybe your life is, that’s why you said “your site has become more interesting, thanks to the many derogatory remarks I am taking” and “carry on and let’s enjoy a banter or two”. Well, I don’t think Marketman put up this site for the purpose of debate which seems to add a little spice to your boring life. Instead of picking on a topic to debate, hill roberts, just GET A LIFE, will you?

    Jul 4, 2009 | 5:45 am

     
  35. sanojmd says:

    hahaha.. another fishpan award.. not name calling but actually an award.. lol.. how many persons are now awarded with that?? hmmm.. the number is getting bigger… lol

    Jul 4, 2009 | 5:49 am

     
  36. Naz says:

    woman underneath Hill Roberts, since when is MarketManila blogsite boring? oh, it was until you visited and left comments… Thanks! not… (lol)

    I just finished bbq-ing ribs over a charcoal grill. If only I could send you a picture so you can comment on it.

    Hey, woman underneath Hill Roberts, if you have a blog, believe me it would have receive so much hits from all over the world by now.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 5:55 am

     
  37. kurzhaar says:

    A factor not mentioned is how well cooked the meat is. If you are like me and prefer your meat rare, the advantage to resting the meat is quite clear if you compare a piece cut into right after cooking with one cut into after a few minutes rest.

    Though if you like your meat well-done, there is probably no point to resting it.

    On raw beef–not “bizarre” at all. Carpaccio and tartare are delicious. I like steaks well seared on the outside and very rare on the inside (“black and blue”).

    Jul 4, 2009 | 6:24 am

     
  38. hill roberts says:

    Hi, Naz,
    Your third paragraph should read:”….it would have received…”with a d, ok? Did you say hey to me? No, dear, no blog, thanks for asking.
    As for other commenters, well, well, well, many of you have the tenacity to gang up on me…Fine. At least, we are all having a great time now.
    Sarcasm, guys, yeah, nice, too. Enjoy reading, it really is a thrilla in manila, and you guys have me to thank!!!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 6:44 am

     
  39. hill roberts says:

    HI, MM,
    Thanks for sharing the links. But, why should I go around the bush? All I was saying was, “I like my steak HOT—and not to wait 7-8 minutes after it’s cooked…how would you feel if the restaurant you’re in served you cold steak? That’s what I was trying to point out—and you had to name drop all the famous people—except for Nigella—I don’t know any of them since I am not a Chef—never will be, t hank God. Look, all my comments are done in a frank, spontaneous manner. There’s no need to be pompous. MM, I am only a reader, an ordinary wife and I speak from the heart. You are a well-travelled man, so it’s startling that you are showing such immense sensitivity. As if the world has fallen on your shoulders and you need all your regular visitors and relatives to vouch for your superior knowledge of things. As if I didn’t know that. Precisely why I decided to join your site because of your worldliness, knowledge and generosity. There was nothing offensive about saying to you that I won’t hang around for 7-8 minutes before eating my steak. I like mine hot, hot hot.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 7:05 am

     
  40. Vanessa says:

    Hill Roberts, kudos for being polite and taking this like a sport. You only spoke your mind and shared what you knew from your own experience, as Marketman does from his on his blog. I certainly don’t think you deserve the “fishpanning”.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 7:07 am

     
  41. Lurker says:

    Hi Marketman … this is off-topic but why do your posts not show up on Google Reader? :( Only a little preview comes up and I have to go to your website to see the whole post. Was it designed that way? Thanks. :)

    Jul 4, 2009 | 7:07 am

     
  42. Naz says:

    yes… hey, woman underneath hill roberts. Thanks, for correcting my English. I am no schooling, you know (lol).

    I will be visiting your neck of the woods, May next year. Want to serve me your so perfect steak?

    Jul 4, 2009 | 7:12 am

     
  43. Marnie says:

    I rest my steaks covered in foil for a few minutes. I’ve learned to rest them after a few disasters wherein I cut a steak straight off the grill or pan and blood seeped out leaving just tough “swelas ng sapatos” meat.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 7:13 am

     
  44. Marnie says:

    Sorry, I meant meat juice seeped out not blood.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 7:15 am

     
  45. pinoy_markus says:

    No offense meant Ms Hill Roberts, are you a lady from UK? You don’t sound/write like a lady at all, to me at least.

    I have to give it to you still, with your very straightforward comments. I also agree with you that guests tend to “swoon” to almost everything that MM write but maybe there are reasons for this, right or wrong. MM must have done something interesting that tickled our imagination.

    BTW, congrats MM for the very nice blog that I’ve been following for some time already.

    To Ms Roberts, commiserations for the loss of UK’s last hope in this year’s Wimbledon. Enjoyed the ladies’ quarters in center court last Tuesday, nice retractable roof. :-) No strawberries and cream for me this time though.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 7:16 am

     
  46. Lilibeth says:

    LOL, this is getting to be comedy of sorts. Looks like this lady, hill roberts, is such a very lonely person who is not getting enough attention from people around her that she comes to this blog with all those lunatic remarks and seemingly very thrilled with all the attention she is getting. LOL!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 7:17 am

     
  47. thelma says:

    very well said, mm…..

    Jul 4, 2009 | 7:26 am

     
  48. chrisb says:

    The internal temperature of steaks tend to spike after removing from the heat and peaks at 5 to 7 minutes AFTER the end of searing, so letting meat rest for up to 8 minutes shouldn’t be a problem. Temperature rise can be up to 6 degrees centigrade for steaks and can be much higher for roasts.

    As for Europe being colder, maybe outside, in winter, but I’m sure everyone has heating inside their homes, so it shouldn’t be that much of a factor for a steak’s internal temp.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 7:36 am

     
  49. Lilibeth says:

    Thanks chrisb for pointing that out. Now I remember when I searched online a long time ago about cooking meat, the chefs even say it would be ideal to take the meat out of the oven or the grill a few degrees before it even reaches the temperature you’re aiming for because, like you said, the temperature peaks at rest.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 8:01 am

     
  50. Cris says:

    Try Sleepasil for the jetlag MM! great site!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 8:18 am

     
  51. Ging says:

    Hill Roberts, negative comments are welcome on MM’s blog. What offends are your superior, uppity and insulting manner and tone. Good God, you even managed to fire an insult at Artisan Chocolatier. So don’t be surprised you’re taking a lot of heat. Remember, you started it.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 8:37 am

     
  52. Edik says:

    wow! that was quite a response!

    sadly i can’t afford to buy angus beef roasts or any other sort of steaks. mad cow disease is always an excuse for my poverty.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 8:41 am

     
  53. marissewalangkaparis says:

    I do rest my steak for a few minutes..I picked this up from a Chef who taught us some basics about food prep way back ….how long? I guess it’s a personal choice (maybe smaller cuts less and roasts which are bigger a bit longer?). I know it has something to do with the meat juices…am no chef….
    When steak is properly done,my experience is it still tastes good even if it has cooled down. When you eat steak and do table conversation,it really cools down as you tend to “do table conversation” and you take forever to finish dinner and so,even when it is not that hot it is still tender and juicy and mmmmmmm. Must be the quality of meat and how well it was prepared.
    Hhhmmmm,cuz of all this,I looked at the steaks closely and am now salivating for steak…hahahaha…yummmmm..have avoided eating steak lately cuz of my cholesterol level.And the really good cuts here are soooo expensive… Ha ha ha..happy fourth of July to all the readers in the Americas!!
    Welcome back home MM and family….

    Jul 4, 2009 | 9:04 am

     
  54. nina custodio says:

    whoa!! that woke me up too!! wtg marketman! ;)

    Jul 4, 2009 | 9:08 am

     
  55. hill roberts says:

    Ging,
    Who is bothered about the heat? I’m not, dear, that’s why it’s laughable that you guys are reacting with such fire and loyalty to MM. Anyway, why is it that you find my comment “negative”? What is wrong with saying that I prefer my steak hot, and I am not going to hang around for 7-8 minutes before eating it. In a restaurant, are you going to bravely say to the Chef to let it rest for 7-8 minutes before the waiter brings it to your table? Also, what is wrong with an opposing view? Are you so afraid to speak your mind, or are you there to please people? Also, there’s no originality in MM’s suggestion to readers since the idea of letting the grilled steak rest for 7-8 minutes came from a cookery book after all. In this case, wouldn’t it be prudent to say that having opposed MM’s suggestion really shouldn’t bother him? Take note, the 7-8 minute rest is the clue: and this advice was not his original idea after all, so, Ging, don’t get heated up for nothing. Not worth our salt, so to speak. If there’s anything I hate, it is insincerity from some visitors who say the most wondrous things most of the time—there is hardly an opposing view from visitors. Indeed, I’ve read the many comments in previous blogs, and they are all rather sedate, too conforming, too agreeing to things xxxxx, for example. Speaking of the xxxxx, i can never enjoy those snacks knowing that xxxxx hands are often unwashed. I know that for a fact. Personal hygiene is way down their priorities, hence the perfume, please… (Note: MM has deleted the nationality, since frankly, it is irrelevant, slanderous, etc.)

    Jul 4, 2009 | 9:11 am

     
  56. hchie says:

    I love steak, this one looks fine. Everytime I see a fish pan somehow MM comes to mind. Haha.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 9:15 am

     
  57. Artisan Chocolatier says:

    HAPPY 4TH OF JULY EVERYONE!!!!

    Hey MM, On the bright side, this topic made you compile all your previous grilling post for everyones easy reference.

    As to curing your jet-lagged, I’m not so sure, if your were up late (Philippine time) working on this post. hehehehe

    Ms. Hill Roberts..When I said you were out of order with your comment, it never meant one cannot disagree with the blog host. Its how you said it and the context of what you said….

    Did you take into consideration the environment (room temperature) marketman was in when he said to let the steak rest for 8-minutes vis-a-vis your own environment? With temperature at around 90F/32C in Manila, when MM took it out of the grill at medium-rare stage and made it rest for 8 minutes, the steak continued to cook (this is what is called carry-over cooking) to medium stage. The steaks therefore were perfectly fine when served. I have no idea what your environment temperature is nor how you like your steak (raw, rare, medium-rare, medium, medium-well, well-done, or burned) and to what stage you grill them. Afterall, MM was telling joey his technique on how he grills his steak. To say then …”my goodness, that steak would be very cold by then, and no way am I going to eat cold steak.” was your first “out-of-order” comment.

    Your second “out-of-order” comment…”I wouldn’t even dream of telling people to eat steaks 7-8 minutes after cooking…this time, MM, your advice is rather wrong.” If you want to eat your steak right off the grill, thats fine. But please don’t tell people (ordinary grillers and chefs alike) they are wrong. Remember, Joey ask MM his technique for grilling.

    Your third “out-of-order” comment…”Besides, the steaks shown above look dry.” Looks can be deceiving and while it may look dry, MM said that it was “flavorful and delicious” and we should take his word for it. Afterall, he grilled it and ate it. Neither of us did!

    Your fourth “out-of-order” comment…”In fact, one of them is a T-bone really. I am a big steak eater like my husband, so I do know my beef”. MM knows his beef too base on what his eaten (what, where, when,and how). And I also know my beef, having had my fair share of them from fresh from slaughter (I live and work in my family’s cattle ranch at one time) to environment and temperature controlled aged meat. From bad, hard and dry steak to luscious, first grade soft-as-butter kobe beef that melt in your mouth. Plus, I also took up culinary were we had a course in butchery. So, I also know my beef. Here’s a url to the different cuts of beef for your reference http://www.reluctantgourmet.com/beef_chart.htm

    As you can see, MM and the regulars on this blogsite have a good rapport and respect everyone opinion, we just don’t impose them on others. It’s a good thing you didn’t go to Marc Medina’s blogsite (that’s if he has one, I don’t know) if he did, he would tell you he is democratic and always give you two choices…take it or leave it…..ok ka ba dyan Marc? hehehe…peace Marc.

    I will not comment on the personal “out-of-order” comments you made to MM and myself, my breeding does not allow it.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 9:17 am

     
  58. Artisan Chocolatier says:

    Hellllooooooooo Ms. Hill Roberts….Don’t you get it? It’s not your preference on how you want to eat your steak, but how you said it.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 9:41 am

     
  59. rvinno says:

    I agree with Artisan Chocolatier…

    Jul 4, 2009 | 9:47 am

     
  60. Diwata says:

    OK everyone… enough already… to each his own… ON TO THE NEXT POST PLEASE….

    Jul 4, 2009 | 9:56 am

     
  61. Lilibeth says:

    I agree with you too Artisan

    Jul 4, 2009 | 10:23 am

     
  62. Christine says:

    stick it to ’em, marketman! i’ve had wagyu beef in kobe, however i don’t remember the chef resting it before we ate – he cooked it in front of us – however my friend that was translating for me might’ve missed that. and we ate INCREDIBLY SLOWLY to savor eatch bite. =)

    but yeah, meat always has the rest on the grill… and since i sear it on really high heat, it takes just that long to cool before i can even take a bite.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 10:24 am

     
  63. Ling Teo says:

    Agree with Diwata – this one obviously can’t tell the difference between making a statement of fact and a statement of opinion, seems to be making contrary statements for the sake of being contrary, AND comes across as disturbingly jingoistic.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 10:27 am

     
  64. betty q. says:

    I am no expert but having worked at several fine dining high volume restaurants, it goes without saying that the steaks served to customers are already WELL-RESTED! I have described to Joey how we do it at the restaurants in the previous post.

    Here is a scenario for anyone interested…At any given week-end, we did at least 250 dinners a night. Yes, I smell like grilled steak and desserts at the end of the night (nice combination!) …80% of the dinners ordered are mostly steak dinners. The mesquite grill is really busy for it is all about timing! Therefore, the steaks that are ready to go out have to be just perfect!

    If someone orders a rare steak, it is grilled per rare and then guess what…before the server can come grab your plate to bring it out to you, it sits for a few minutes while it is checked and every plate that has to go out …checked by the sous chef or executive chef (quality control) giving the steak the chance to rest.

    I am sure ChrisB will concur with this.

    Hey, Marisse…check out Alton Brown’s way of prepping CHEAP cuts of steak and make it like close to Wagyu beef…I think it was Alton Brown! Basta, I remember it was a guy…maybe David Lebovitz…it was like the brining thing…but not a wet brine! I am having a senior moment but I am sure it will come back to me by the end of the night!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 10:37 am

     
  65. Gerry says:

    Let’s throw some science into this debate and muddle things up. When a steak is grilled on high heat, certain things happen. On the surface of the meat exposed to the grill, the high heat causes the muscle fiber to contract and drive its inherent moisture into the cooler interior of the steak. Right after cooking, the surface of the meat is a lot hotter than the interior. Resting allows the meat temperature to equalize and thus allowing the moisture to flow back up from the center of the meat back up to the surface. Cutting it too soon will result in this moisture flowing right out of meat and into the plate, that is why well rested meat will not result in blood on the plate.

    The length of resting depends on the thickness of the steak and the temperature of the heat source. If your steak is 1/4 in., I would advice not resting it. It’s very difficult to cook steak this thin to the proper temperature, unless you like it well done, so go ahead and eat it right away. The interior of meat will continue to rise even after removing from the heat, since the heat near the surface will continue to penetrate inwards, so thin steaks tend to overcook, while thicker steaks can take on this residual heat better. The thicker the meat, the longer the rest to allow the heat to distribute itself evenly.

    There is a way to cook steaks and roasts and eat it right away without resting. The trick is to cook the meat at exactly the temperature you want it done, say 130C for medium rare. We do it on a regular basis with some rather expensive equipment, but our purpose is to come up with perfectly cooked steaks and roasts, not really to avoid the resting period. Cooking this way is very slow, but the results are well worth the wait.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 10:43 am

     
  66. kaya says:

    I love steak, and like most of you guys, i let my steaks rest too… the only thing i don’t like about resting meat is the waiting time because I’m always so excited to eat it! =D

    Jul 4, 2009 | 10:59 am

     
  67. Ken Lovell says:

    Wow, someone wants to turn a food blog into one of those tedious forums where everyone argues like children over nothing, all in the name of being ‘interesting’ and ‘spontaneous’. Time for some comments moderation methinks to stop things getting out of control!

    But on topic and responding to Gerry, I used to rest my meat as recommended but I was blowed if I could notice the difference in grilled cuts; in fact they seemed to leak juice all over the place during the resting period which seems inconsistent with what the cookbooks say is the idea of resting (at least if they bleed on your plate you get to eat the juices rather than lose them on a resting platter).

    I do rest roasts but that’s mainly because after they are done I usually have sauces to make or vegetables to crisp or whatever. They still seem to let a lot of juice escape when I carve them, even if they’ve been resting for 20 minutes.

    One thing I have noticed is that Filipinos are much more relaxed about eating warm food (as opposed to hot) than Australians are. No doubt the different ambient temperatures are the main reason; room temperature food in an Australian winter is decidedly unpleasant unless it’s a salad, whereas in Phils it’s often OK.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 11:01 am

     
  68. Martin L. says:

    Hi MM Again as the Brits say you are SPOT ON!! She must be cooking out doors and eats in the cold LOL . Even the best steak house here in New York City (Peter Lugars) rest the meat after it comes out of the salamander or broiler. its also called Carry over cooking refers to the phenomenon that food retains heat and continues to cook even after being removed from the source of heat.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 11:48 am

     
  69. Gerry says:

    Ken,

    I have to admit that I do not know if there is any effect on the taste between meat that is rested or one that is fresh off the grill. Rested meats do tend to leak less thus making the plate less bloody, but the aroma of a fresh grilled steak must add to the appeal of eating it right away. As an experiment, try starting thick cuts in a low oven, then finishing them quickly on a very hot grill.

    As for your roasts, try searing them initially on high heat, then lowering the temperature to low. Use a meat thermometer to check for doneness. This should prevent this excessive leaking issue.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 11:51 am

     
  70. chrisb says:

    Betty q. you’re right. No chef in his right mind will serve steak straight out of the grill for all the reasons mentioned above. BUT, if a customer requests that the chef does so, I’m sure he/she would oblige =) Except perhaps those who have taken on a personal mission to educate their diners…

    Jul 4, 2009 | 11:55 am

     
  71. attybubba says:

    Hi guys, long-time lurker here.

    interesting exchange(s) – i agree with the majority that it’s actually how Hill Roberts “disagreed” that was a bit offline. But i am all for having your steak any which way you like it. I like mine hot too (like you Hill Roberts).

    Revisit your 1st ever comment again Hill Roberts (quoted above), will you agree with me that you simply did not say that you liked your steak hot, BUT also said MM was wrong? I quote:

    “I wouldn’t even dream of telling people to eat steaks 7-8 minutes after cooking…this time, MM, your advice is rather wrong.”

    i just think it is a bit contradictory to say that everyone is entitled to their opinion (which roughly translates to there are a hundred ways of eating/cooking steak) and then follow-up by saying that it is WRONG to let the meat rest?

    Just being plain objective here…

    Jul 4, 2009 | 12:07 pm

     
  72. Mari says:

    Well said MM and the rest of the bloggers! I’m not a real connoisseur in cooking but I do let my meat rest before I eat it. I tent it with a foil so the heat does not escape…and if I’m really hungry, of course I will eat it right away. But with the high heat still there, I have to blow it off first before I can really chew it! ha-ha-ha, now that being said…that’s why you let the meat rest first!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 12:19 pm

     
  73. attybubba says:

    Another off-topic comment…

    after posting my remark above i tuned it to Discovery Travel and Living and saw the rerun tail-end of Bobby Chinn’s World Cafe Asia with MM!

    Nice house MM haha!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 12:31 pm

     
  74. Anbu says:

    Very interesting Gerry. Could you please elaborate on the method you mentioned.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 12:42 pm

     
  75. cecilia mq says:

    Well said Mr. MM!
    Me, I let my steak rest for few minutes just for one reason only…I don’t want my tougue to get burnt.. just kidding!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 12:53 pm

     
  76. Susan D. says:

    To each his own. I like my steak right off the grill and I’ve never heard of resting the meat until reading this post. Interesting but I won’t change my eating habits. Hot off the grill is how I like it and that goes with any food including soup…I know how to eat my food without burning my tongue even straight from the stove.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 1:06 pm

     
  77. betty q. says:

    Sorry, MM! off the tangent again! Just in case Mariise doesn’t get the chance to open her e-mail before Sunday!

    Marisse…just got your e-mail. My sister is leaving again for Manila on Monday. …will try to send thru her the spices you need for your bacon so you can do a dry run! Are those the only spices you need? I need a phone no. that I can give her.

    Maraming Salamat, MM!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 1:31 pm

     
  78. Lava Bien says:

    MM,

    You shoud definitely try South America.

    I too, have tried steak in NY, SF, Europe but the best steak bar none that I’ve had was in ARGENTINA (Uruguay and Chile were ok also).

    They do eat steak there like it’s “tuyo” (dried-fish)hehehehe as in all the time breakfast, lunch and dinner. Best prepared by real cowboys (Gauchos) from the country side or just go to any “parillas” anywhere in the city of Buenos Aires (spent a semester there for college spanish -they do talk a bit funny though heheheheh)

    Beach (Uruguay – just 2 hours boat ride), Steak and very good looking I mean gorgeous Porteñas (someone from Buenos Aires),one of the best semesters in my life. You don’t have to be a millionaire to do it there, pretty cheap.

    Go MM, try South America (though we have better beaches in PI, way better)see the way they live and relax, they do know how to live.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 2:17 pm

     
  79. ariel says:

    Best Beef Argentinian or Brazilian Churascharia..

    Jul 4, 2009 | 2:29 pm

     
  80. betty q. says:

    On a lighter note…APICIO, SILLY LOLO AND MANONG MARC: Are you there? ANONG SAY NINYO?!?

    Jul 4, 2009 | 2:32 pm

     
  81. botchok says:

    Wow! I was late tuning in and i almost missed the fireworks here, and it’s not even july 4th yet here. Well, i decided not to add to the “Fireworks” anymore.
    Have a great weekend everyone!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 2:36 pm

     
  82. Ms.D says:

    To: Ms. Hill Roberts

    Everyone is entitled with their own opinion.

    It doesn’t matter if it is grammatically correct/incorrect.

    It is the way you deliver your message. One’s opinion is accepted better “THINK first BEFORE you WRITE something”.

    It shows WHO YOU ARE…..with “A” problem!!!

    When you said:

    ” MM, your advice is rather wrong. Besides, the steaks shown above look dry. In fact, one of them is a T-bone really. I am a big steak eater like my husband, so I do know my beef”

    As if you are not not willing to accept anyone’s suggestion.

    You sound sooooo SELF RIGHTEOUS!!!!!!

    BTW…. correct me if am wrong am no professional or a degree holder just want to express my opinion too.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 2:41 pm

     
  83. rvinno says:

    betty q, I think you were talking about (REALLY) salting cheap beef for a few minutes (or was it 30minutes?) then washing the salt off before grilling/roasting?

    I don’t know, I’ve read it on a couple of food blogs already, haven’t tried it though since we’re on a meat free (except chicken) diet right now. They said it’s supposed to break the proteins to soften the tougher cuts of meat.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 3:44 pm

     
  84. betty q. says:

    Marisse , Rvinno: now I remember! I told you it was a guy and the name will come back to me before the night is over!!!. ..it is Chris Kimball from America’s Test Kitchen!

    Rvinno…we are not much into beef unlike my in-laws. But you just have to try brining your chicken (i use chicken legs or whatever is on sale!) before barbecuing . I posted the ingredients I use a while back (please don’t ask me where …I cannot remember!). Sometmes, the simplest ones turn out to be the best! I barbecue the chicken legs on medium -low fire for at least 30 to 40 minutes since the boys prefer crunchy skin but moist and succulent meat. Though it is barbecued for that long, it doesn’t turn out DRY and I barbecue 20 chicken legs at a time ( we love LEFTOVERS!)

    Jul 4, 2009 | 4:24 pm

     
  85. fried-neurons says:

    American beef – all over the map, from horrible to excellent, from factory-farmed and hormone-pumped budget beef at Wal-Mart through run-of-the-mill USDA Choice and Prime at Safeway to organic grass-fed at Draeger’s and dry-aged at Lobel’s and Peter Luger and American kobe from reputable purveyors…

    French beef – meh… on par with mid-priced, mid-grade American

    British beef – double meh… on par with mid-priced, mid-grade American

    Best beef in the world? IMO it’s a tie between Japanese kobe and Argentine beef. Out. Of. This. World.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 4:42 pm

     
  86. fried-neurons says:

    And oh, yeah… whoever says that steak should be eaten immediately after coming off the grill or out of the oven is bonkers. Steaks and roasts absolutely need to rest after cooking, lest all the juices run out faster than Speedy Gonzalez can say “¡ándale!”

    Jul 4, 2009 | 4:45 pm

     
  87. rvinno says:

    Thanks so much betty q.! haha, I’ve been reading this blog for a long time and I feel flattered to get a reply from the the betty q. of Marketmanila. Thanks for the suggestion! I have bookmarked MM’s index of your recipes and I have tried a lot of them, and so far your recipes never fail. I’m definitely gonna try this one.. :)

    Jul 4, 2009 | 4:46 pm

     
  88. Lilibeth says:

    I definitely agree with you fried-neurons. Kobe beef is the best – melt in the mouth delicious! Too expensive though for a 4th of July celebration.

    I was initially offended by hill roberts comments but now, the comments of this crazy lady is tickling my funny bone. She contradicts herself in her statements! Truly PATHETIC!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 5:07 pm

     
  89. susie says:

    hill roberts, mm’s blog had never been boring prior to your ill-gotten comments. you’re so irritating and ill-mannered.
    now go and GRILL YOUR 14 OUNCE BRITISH STEAK AND HAVE IT THE WAY YOU WANT IT… AND DON’T PREACH THAT SOMEONE IS WRONG IN
    THEIR OWN WAY OF HANDLING THEIRS! YOU DON’T HAVE ANY SENSE OF DIPLOMACY AND YOUR COMMENTS ARE NOT WORTH RESPONDING TO. LET’S LEAVE IT AT THAT!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 5:46 pm

     
  90. hill roberts says:

    Hi, MM,
    I had no idea my comment would cause such ire and consternation. If there’s anything really sad about the whole thing, it’s the other “visitors” who have come with sharp knives and extremely nasty comments/conjectures/and of course, behaving like judge and jury. Somehow, I get the feeling that because Filipinos over there can’t get at the lousy politicians, they can vent their anger at someone so far away whose only so-called “mistake” was to make the discussion spicy. Perhaps, MM, it’s time to take hold of the reins once again and refrain these misbehaved, with rather poor vocabulary to stop hitting at another visitor way below the belt. It is your duty, as owner of the site, to put order. I have already thanks all commenters, what more do they want, blood? No wonder our country is in such a mess because people there refuse to listen to sound, constructive objective criticism. Besides, reading your previous blogs like that one in the supermarket and the restaurant, what exactly was the difference of “tone”? I mean, you were so heated up, angry, playing hell with everyone you can get hold on to, and no visitor protested to your “tone”. How sad that there are just too many narrow-minded people whacking the internet for blood—and nothing more. it should worry you MM if these guys continue to write extremely offensive gung-ho comments. This is all for now, and thank you once again for adding me to your “visitors’ list”. Cheers to you and all, until next time, and looking forward to your next topic. Mabuhay!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 5:59 pm

     
  91. hill roberts says:

    “….I have already thanked all commenters…”

    Jul 4, 2009 | 6:02 pm

     
  92. iris says:

    That photo of the steak made me hungry. :)

    Jul 4, 2009 | 6:12 pm

     
  93. Richard says:

    MM – what neither your nor Hill seem to have mentioned is the absolute necessity of letting beef mature properly BEFORE you even think of cooking it. Most cows are scared stiff as they are slaughtered, and release a lot of enzymes that make the meat seize up and become tough.

    I buy cheap local beef in Surigao market (getting there early to ensure the best cuts – fillet, rump, or sirloin), that I buy as a single lump. I leave this to rest for a few days (at room temperature) then wash the outside with vinegar, and only then slice it into steaks, interleaved with papaya leaves, which I put in the ref for a few more days. That is the most important part of beef preparation.

    The ‘resting’ of meat after cooking depends very much on the thickness of the steak or roast. You don’t leave a thin Minute Steak to rest because it will go soggy. Over about 2cm thick, it can wait a bit, and a thick roast definitely needs to rest about 20 minutes, to allow the boiling liquids to settle themselves.

    Being a Brit living in the Philippines, I am quite certain that neither Brits nor Fils know anything at all about beefsteaks. The Brits overcook them, and the Fils buy them straight from the Monterey freezer and expect them to taste good.

    You can make almost any kind of beefsteak taste good by ageing it properly.

    I learned my steaks by working butchery in London’s Smithfields and Brussels markets, and cooking and serving in a Belgian steak restaurant, and managing some London Steakhouses.

    I would not have been allowed to serve steaks in the dry, overdone condition you show in your photograph.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 6:16 pm

     
  94. susie says:

    JUST SHUT UP, HILL ROBERTS. SAVE YOUR INK… NOBODY CARES OM WHAT’S IN YOUR MIND. NOT WORTH A PENNY…

    Jul 4, 2009 | 6:17 pm

     
  95. jp says:

    can eating british beef make one dense? hill, are you just so full of yourself that you refuse to get it or are you just plain dumb that you don’t. just three words for you hill – the golden rule. and if you can’t take the heat, then get out of mm’s kitchen.

    when i first read your comment, i thought right away that here comes another one asking for it. you weren’t just expressing an opinion but you were pretty high and mighty about it. and yet you keep on maintaining your innocence. there are a lot of same comments about you and but a few who understand your ill-mannered ways, from correcting others for their typos and grammar as if yours didn’t blow bells and whistles in my ears and calling people phoney for using a unique name. you are such a sanctimonious xxxxx. you just showed that you are an inday who xxxxxxx xx and probably the worst kind because of your uppity snobbery. no amount of british beef can cure the uncouthness.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 6:24 pm

     
  96. Richard says:

    In fact, if that happened (as it often does) I would slap on a coat of gravy and stick them back on the grill for half a minute to make them look succulent and fresh.

    Fishpan, my ass. If I made a mistake, the Grill Sous Chef would throw a knife at me. I have a nick on the ear to prove it.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 6:28 pm

     
  97. Lee says:

    Beef is the root of all evil. For the love of world peace let us all talk about pork.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 6:34 pm

     
  98. Artisan Chocolatier says:

    OK….and now I REST my STEAK!!!!…este, I meant rest my case….. hahahaha….sorry guys…I just had to throw that in.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 6:35 pm

     
  99. jp says:

    and instead of thanking all commenters, why not try apologizing for the way you worded your honest and personal opinion.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 6:38 pm

     
  100. donya buding says:

    inday hill, gabi-i na. ipasulod na to ang mga baka sa pasungan kay ato to ihawon ugma ang usa para makakaon ta ug bipstik.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 6:44 pm

     
  101. Artisan Chocolatier says:

    Richard…yes, I do recall my Executive Chef in school, who was a Brit, lecture in class that the toughest meats are from freshly slaughtered animals. And that’s why them environment and temperature controlled aged cuts taste so much better.

    And yes, resting after grilling depends on thickness (what is there to wait for with bistek or minute steak) but in MM’s particularly case, he was talking about one-and-a-half inch thick steaks. So resting was definitely ok for his steak, don’t you think.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 6:48 pm

     
  102. Richard says:

    Hill and MM – some of the comments here have been extremely xenophobic (anti-foreigner). They should be deleted (but with the sender’s name still showing).

    I have been in the Philippines f

    Jul 4, 2009 | 6:52 pm

     
  103. Ging says:

    Let go of her everyone. It’s quite obvious that that commenter is irrational. We are talking about steak, negating comments and good manners but it seems she has to go off tangent and bring in other issues like vocabulary, grammar, french personal hygiene, philippine politics and other whatnot.

    No one can have a decent conversation with a person like this. She will not listen or respect anyone else’s opinion. This is the type of person who has to have the last say on all topics under the sun. The type of person who loves the sound of her own voice.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 7:03 pm

     
  104. Richard says:

    MM & Hill – Many of the comments here are frankly xenophobic and racist.

    MM – You need to rein in your most anti-everyone else’s xenophobic comments by deleting them – but leave their names.

    Hill – you need to understand that all of us ‘over there’ are not just a bunch of brown wallies, but a people, half again as much population as the Brits, and almost certainly better educated.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 7:14 pm

     
  105. ifoodtrip.com says:

    To Miss Hill Roberts,

    I understand that you don’t want to eat your steak cold. Nobody likes eating cold steak. If you are eating outdoors in very cold temperature, you could always very loosely cover the steak with foil and punch holes on the foil and rest it for at least two of minutes. That way, you are resting your steak and keeping it warm without overcooking it or making it cold. Most restaurants have a food warmer when resting steaks so it won’t become cold.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 7:35 pm

     
  106. ifoodtrip.com says:

    typo: rest it for at least two minutes.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 7:40 pm

     
  107. chrisb says:

    Richard, when you say room temperature, do you mean a room with air conditioning? Or just ambient outdoor temperature? Wouldn’t leaving meat out hanging for just a single day in a tropical climate(~30 degrees centigrade) spoil it?

    Jul 4, 2009 | 8:17 pm

     
  108. marilen rodriguez says:

    We do not play toady, repeat, do not play toady to MM but because we enjoy his blog immensely, because he brings such generosity and curiosity and energy to his many interests – food, travel, family life, charity work. And because the people who follow this blog express the same interest, generosity and joie de vivre about learning and sharing and come with manners. (please excuse faulty grammar)

    Jul 4, 2009 | 8:19 pm

     
  109. cai says:

    Relax everyone….enough with the steak! Ensaymada nalang? =)

    Jul 4, 2009 | 8:48 pm

     
  110. diday says:

    I have not read the whole story yet but MM is back with a BANG!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 9:10 pm

     
  111. Lava Bien says:

    Hearing asians talking about beef (except in Kobe, Japan), is like hearing dessert people talking about the best seafood.

    Unless you see herds of cows normally in the Philippines, go ahead talk about your steaks.
    It is not normal to see cow ranches in PI, so quit talking about knowing the best steak there is people.

    MM, on the other hand is a well travelled guy, so he’d more than likely know more about steaks than any average dude.

    Ask Texans, they tell you they have the best beef. Sure Brits would say the same, but I digress, Texans got the edge and though I’m from California where the happy cows come from hehehehe.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 9:25 pm

     
  112. Toping says:

    It pains me to say this, as I consider myself a part of this “community”, but do we really have to resort to snark? I am referring to the comments full of bile and recrimination that don’t add anything to the conversation. MM can fend for himself quite nicely and ably, so what’s with the name-calling and other derogatory, frankly childish remarks? C’mon people, we’re better than that! ;-)

    To Ms. Hill: When you say “our country”, I take it to mean you’re Filipina–or of Filipino descent?

    Jul 4, 2009 | 9:26 pm

     
  113. Lava Bien says:

    for the spelling nazi’s correction:
    Desert people (bedouins, nomads, etc)

    Jul 4, 2009 | 9:26 pm

     
  114. Marketman's Fan says:

    Richard, not many – only a few.
    Personally I don’t even find the comments xenophobic or racist.
    Maybe just rude, argumentative or just poorly worded.
    Censorship is not good in my opinion.
    It is always good to know what people think good or bad.
    There are exceptions and fortunately only Marketman
    can decide on that.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 9:29 pm

     
  115. Lava Bien says:

    ChrisB

    No it wouldn’t spoil the meat, have you been to a palengke lately?

    They do this in Europe too, hang the meat for a day or days in the cellar or basement (for those who own fincas)before cooking. It breakdowns and make the meat more tender.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 9:30 pm

     
  116. Zita says:

    Welcome back MM!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 9:38 pm

     
  117. bertN says:

    All these “give and take” to “rest or not to rest” steak? Tama si cai, ensaymada na lang ang kainin natin para walang problema at lahat ay maligaya LOL. Happy 4th of July sa lahat!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 9:39 pm

     
  118. Anbu says:

    Dang, everyone take a chill pill. Relax, take a deep breath, and have some steak.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 9:40 pm

     
  119. deirdregurl says:

    i actually didn’t find ms. hill roberts comments nasty—just a bit uppity (kumbaga–nagyayabang!) and the comment about artisan chocolatier was rather below-the-belt since ms.hill roberts obviously does not know artisan personally to be dissing him. but just like what toping said, MM did remarkably well fending for himself. so, let’s move on to the next topic, please.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 9:44 pm

     
  120. Lava Bien says:

    Kalabaw na lang kainin nyo.

    I prefer Karne ng Kalabaw over beef hehehehe go Lucban Quezon!!!(please no carabeef, other countries do not really use the word carabeef, or carabao – Singapore is an English speaking country and they do not use carabao, or India for that matter or say Australia, can you say Australia is an English Speaking country? yes you could but do they call it carabao or water buffalo?) hehheehehhe I rest my case, google all you want, BING is the new thing..bing.com

    Chill people chill!

    Happy 4th of July , though no kalabaw here. Steaks and oysters though baby! yeah!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 9:49 pm

     
  121. Marketman says:

    Hello Everyone. I step away from my desk for the day and back now to find this maelstrom of comments. And this post was placed very early on a Saturday, the slowest day on the blog! Imagine if it was posted on a Monday?? At any rate, let me address a couple of the points raised earlier on by several folks…

    – Jackie, even in restaurants, as confirmed by a chef, Chrisb, and a chef/restaurant employee bettyq, steaks take a minimum of 5-10 minutes from the time they come off the grill to the time you get them at your table. They might be under a warming lamp part of that time, but they are generally rested, whether intentionally or unintentionally.
    – Raw beef, done right, can be utterly sublime. Carpaccio is my favorite. Steak tartare is a bit more difficult for me as it does look like raw hamburger meat, so it’s a psychological thing… However, I did once have a steak tartare where a superb whole steak was ground up/chopped up to order and it did taste pretty good.
    – Lurker, unfortunately, I have no idea while whole posts don’t show up in Google Reader. I apologize for the inconvenience that you might have to actually have to visit the site to read the whole post, but I am not technical enough to fix that issue myself.

    As for the steaks, there are a number of technical issues raised, so I figured I would provide more detail:

    – These steaks were roughly 1.5 inches thick, though one that I still have but haven’t cooked is closer to 2 inches thick. I typically buy a whole Prime Rib Roast and have the steaks sliced to order. The sliced steaks here at Santis or Bacchus might be referred to as “Cowboy” steaks and if boneless (which they had for some years when importing beef with bones was banned), Cowgirl steaks. In France, they are known as Cote de Boeuf. Not sure what they are called elsewhere.
    – I grill them over wood charcoal, not briquets, not gas, as I personally like the qualities that wood charcoal possess, and it is quite readily available in this part of the world. I only use gas when there is NO POSSIBILITY of cooking outdoors, and for that I use a stove-top grill at the beach which has 15,000 BTU’s, double or more the heating capacity of our La Germania stove in the city. Reading up for this post, I learned that 70+% of North American households grill outdoors over GAS fired grills. Most of the remainder with briquets. A few with wood charcoal, Just so you know the continental differences. I honestly don’t know what is used in most of Europe, though the few times we had spectacular steaks in Italy, they were done over small pieces of hardwoods rather than coals.
    – I use a standard Weber grill, and use the cover to quell flare-ups from oil fires.
    – When I did these steaks, it was sunny out, with mercury at roughly 31-33C and relative humidity at say 80-90%, I would guess. I also generally assume that the VAST MAJORITY of grilling in temperate nations is done during the warmer or summery months, as it seems a bit ridiculous to picture folks in Scandinavia or Canada outdoors at their grill in the middle of a snowstorm. I know about exceptions, but as a rule, and backed up by sales of charcoal and grills in North America, grilling heats up in the summer months. Mind you, last week, at my sister’s place in Long Island, I was grilling London Broils on a gas grill outdoors in the middle of a heavy thunerstorm, with grill cover on. Steaks were removed to the warmer kitchen and tented with foil and rested for a few minutes before slicing. They turned out just fine and nicely rare…
    – The steaks I cooked above were removed onto a warmed white ceramic serving platter, and even a few minutes after resting, note the absence of excessive fluids on the base of the platter in the photo above and in the previous post.
    – The steaks were eaten roughly 8 minutes after they came off the flames, just enough time to put the last minute touches to side dishes, get water in the glasses and sit down to eat.
    – These were cooked to a medium rare, and I now regret not taking a photo of the sliced pieces, not realizing there would be so much interest in them, and I can assure you, despite a few folks being so certain of their dryness from perusing their monitors, that they were succulent and not dry.
    – As for ageing, I ABSOLUTELY AGREE the best beef must be aged. Aging is simply a process to remove moisture, as beef is a majority water, and by losing say 5-10% or more of the moisture, the meat becomes more intensely flavorful. However, Richard (and Lava Bien), I personally would be concerned about leaving beef out at Philippine room temperature, often 80F or more, for several days due to possible bacterial growth. At least in most of the material I have read so far, the recommended dry aging temperature is in the 30-40F range. I realize they might just be being overly cautious, and I suppose if you haven’t died or gone seriously ill your hot temperature aging must be working for you. I have aged beef in a fridge for several days and it does indeed seem to improve flavor. I have seen my grandmother age slices of well salted beef tapa at room temperature or in the sun to make casajos/kasahos in Cebu many decades ago. But then that had salt…
    – And Richard, not all beef in the Philippines is that bad, besides local beef, we do have access to some pretty darned good imported beef, albeit mostly frozen at some point. Perhaps it’s difficult to obtain it in Surigao, but in Manila, things are improving. U.S. Prime and Choice Beef from various sources is available. Kobe or Wagyu Beef is available, though at astronomical prices. Australian and New Zealand beef is also available, including chilled, not frozen tenderloins. Even cheaper cuts of bulk beef from Argentina is sold in the grocery (Cash & Carry) on occasion. But I guess if you can age your own local beef properly, all the better, and far more economical too.
    – I have also brined lots of meats, but oddly, never brined beef per se, too worried to screw up a very expensive (at least here in the Philippines) cut of meat. However, last Christmas, I think I did a heavy salt rub on a roast and placed it in the fridge overnight to draw moisture out and the results were pretty good, if I recall correctly.

    Now as for Hill, I am still deciding whether to respond to your many subsequent comments at all. For now, I can say, as I said before, if you start a food fight in a cafeteria by flinging the first morsel of food, or fling mud in a playground, or throw stones in a glass house, you should be prepared for the inevitable consequences. And a lack of logic in statements that are increasingly inflammatory are a recipe for a bonfire. In this case, you added your own fuel to a match you decided to light all on your own.

    And to clarify, if I recall emails correctly from recent weeks, Ms. Hill is now based in Spain, though I gather she used to live in the U.K., and a quick google says it was roughly 31C in Madrid today, so the temperatures there are similar to ours in Manila today, albeit with lower humidity. So ambient temperature which others thought might be one of the issues, seems to be a non-issue at this particular time.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 10:17 pm

     
  122. Marketman says:

    Oh, and Richard, I went back and read every one of the comments, and didn’t find any that were blatantly xenophobic, or specifically a dislike or hatred of foreigners. There are a few that diss British beef (in reaction to Ms. Hill’s claims) but they refer to the beef, not the British citizens or people. There is one comment that does accuse Ms. Hill of “marrying up” and I will remove that, but from a Filipino context, that is actually more a dig at a local or pinoy (which I gather Ms. Hill is Filipino by nationality but not citizenship) rather than the foreign spouse… At any rate, if there is a specific comment that you had in mind, please identify it and I will be glad to revisit it. I generally only delete comments when they contain really foul language, really baseless or irrational comments, libelous/slanderous statements (yes, I have had those), or when a commenter has, in my opinion, made themselves so unwelcome that I have deleted their comments in toto. In this case, I consider Ms. Hill’s initial comment to be a sort of challenge or provocation, and if readers want to respond to that, within reasonable bounds, I have allowed it. Finally, I also delete questionable comments from first time commenters that don’t give valid email addresses.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 10:37 pm

     
  123. rvinno says:

    I do resent Hill’s comments about “Philippine politics” etc etc.

    You’re judging every Filipino citizen because of our current situation? And, for somebody who has been away for “three decades” (correct me if I’m wrong), I don’t think you are in the position to judge and blame” us for what’s happening to our country.

    I don’t want this to turn into a political war, but Filipinos who judge and blame other Filipinos because they are already in a “BETTER” place seems pathetic to me, and for lack of a better english term “nagfeefeeling”.

    As for MM’s tone during the SM incident, I’ve read the comments and some of them told MM that maybe his reaction was a little too much, but because of the well-mannered way that they said it, those comments never ignited a fishpan incident.

    You give yourself so much credit for thinking that you just added “spice” to this boring world of MM, while MM was away, WE WERE BORED, we don’t need any of your so called spice anyway, consider yourself as an optional ingredient to a perfectly crafted recipe.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 10:48 pm

     
  124. Marketman says:

    I am off on one last short trip this summer so things will be slow on the blog for a few days unless I find breaks to write new posts… There are 2,200+ posts in the archives, so head backwards to read older posts if you are so inclined. There are quite a few other “fishpan” moments in the 4.5 year history of this blog. Please behave and keep things above the belt. Or should I say above the neck? :)

    Jul 4, 2009 | 10:51 pm

     
  125. diday says:

    Toping, To adapt from my husband’s view on ‘community’: MarketManila is a community with whom we choose to belong, to whom we are committed, and with-for-of whom great food can be created. This is not unique – conflicts, frictions and contradictions – happens to all ‘communities’ everywhere. I also learn new and ‘imported’ things from this site everyday.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 10:55 pm

     
  126. Good Life says:

    This is what you call 4th of July ,lots of fireworks!!! Positive and negative comments should be address in a civilized manner. I rest my case.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 11:02 pm

     
  127. Richard says:

    Ageing beef at room temperature is perfectly ok, because the airborne bacteria can’t get inside the meat.

    They do get to the outside.though, so that’s the reason for washing in vinegar. If I recall, many Filipino recipes include vinegar for exactly the same reason.

    The best steaks I’ve ever had came from a Cypriot, who would phone me that he had a new cow ten days in advance. He hung the meat on his restaurant wall, and sliced and cooked the steaks in front of you.

    But he also made sure that he cooked the sides and edges (particularly the skin fat) properly. which, judging from your photos, you didn’t do.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 11:04 pm

     
  128. Marketman says:

    Richard, oops, I found the comment that you must have been referring to. When I went back and read the comments, I skipped over Hill’s, so only now noticed the reference to a nationality and dirty hands… it was inappropriate and it has been deleted. Good to know re aging beef at tropical room temperature. One question for future reference, do you enclose it in screen to prevent any flies or insects from laying eggs/eventual maggots on the beef? Do you place a drip pan under the beef to catch the fluids or do they simply evaporate?

    Jul 4, 2009 | 11:09 pm

     
  129. PitPat says:

    Thank you all for the entertainment in this blog-thread! MarketMan..kudos! to you for always taking the high-road and what lucid and eloquent posts!..not sure if you said this before but you must have been a writer at some point in your life (this blog site notwithstanding).

    Quick question..just want to pick your brain hoping for more excellent!! food education – I thought the “cowboy” cut steak is a bone-in ribeye steak with the bone left extra long and trimmed (purpose of which is for the cowboy to use it as a handle)? Some web posts below for supporting pic and description. Is that right? Looking forward to your reply.

    http://www.barrypopik.com/index.php/new_york_city/entry/cowboy_cut_cowboy_ribeye_steak_cowboy_rib_steak/

    http://www.lobels.com/store/main/item.asp?item=99

    Keep on posting MM!!!! Luv your site.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 11:20 pm

     
  130. betty q. says:

    Uhmmmm, MM!…I am the only oddball here most likely in the Northeren Hemisphere that BARBECUES in the dead of winter…Snowstorms DO NOT scare me unless the barbecue will be buried in DEEP SNOW! I draw the line there!….haHAHAHA

    Jul 4, 2009 | 11:23 pm

     
  131. Ally says:

    Gosh, an unusually busy Saturday. I guess all the pent up energy from MM blog deprivation…………….Hwag na natin bigyan ng importansya ang bastusan ng iba.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 11:32 pm

     
  132. betty q. says:

    MM..there is a site on the web that gives instructions on how to safely DRY AGE BEEF AT HOME. Just type in those words and it will pop up.

    Sorry, I am not much help…my expertise does not cover this area. I have limits, you know!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 11:34 pm

     
  133. chrisb says:

    Richard, thanks for the reply. Like MM, I always thought one had to age beef in refrigerated rooms. But yes I guess it is logical that bacteria won’t penetrate the meat so fast if the carcass was slaughtered properly anyway. I have never aged meat myself and always left it to the experts… Come to think of it, they age meats for weeks or even months, hence the need for refrigeration. My question stems from the cardinal rule in food prep: never leave anything between 4 and 60 deg centigrade for more than 4 hours! But of course there are exceptions like when cooking sous vide, which I do, and your method of ageing I guess.

    To Lava Bien, seriously, the Carabao/Water Buffalo issue? Again? =) It’s just like typhoons and cyclones and hurricanes. Different terms from different places, all acceptable in the English language.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 11:46 pm

     
  134. Lou says:

    All I can say is, my family (me excluded because I avoid red meat) don’t let steak or roast rest – but that’s only because they’re such impatient carnivorous gluttons hahaha. I’ll pass on your advice and let’s hope they take it.

    Well said, MM. Fellow readers in the US, happy Fourth! And belated happy Canada Day to those north of the border.

    Jul 4, 2009 | 11:46 pm

     
  135. betty q. says:

    Lava Bien. …I am a pastry chef by profession (wouldn’t trade it for anything in the world…mom said my twin is a KItchenAid mixer!)…hahahaha

    However, I can tell you things you need to know about seafood…having worked at Vancouver’s Premier Seafood restaurant and worked as a protege of one of Vancouver’s finest executive chefs who today remains one of my best friends and still calls me when he is on a bind though I just look after my family now and my garden. So, in other words, again I am the only oddball most likely who can share my expertise on desserts/pastries and at the same time talk about seafood. Looking back, I think that is why my hubby proposed to me!

    Jul 4, 2009 | 11:52 pm

     
  136. Doddie from Korea says:

    All this brouhaha over how you cook/fix/eat steak. To each his own. We (hubby and I) eat it hot off the grill or sometimes after it has rested (since we’re busy fixing the sidings like french fries and such). The best beef? Some say Japan, some say Korea, others prefer Argentinian. I have no vote on this since I only tried Kobe and Korean Wagyu beef. All I can say is that if you get a good cut of meat, grilling it is the best way to go for a steak.

    No need to bash others if they don’t agree or even if they tell MM is wrong, he didn’t blow up didn’t he? So why do you? And ask yourselves after a month, does this really matter? I bet it won’t.

    Jul 5, 2009 | 12:43 am

     
  137. chrisb says:

    Lava Bien again, we do have cattle ranches here in the Philippines. My family used to raise some cattle in our farm, and I do know that there are hundreds of hectares of cattle ranches up north and in Miindanao. My brother used to go to Australia to buy live cattle to bring to the Philippines (Pampanga and Batangas) for fattening. Anyways, I don’t think one has to have a direct line of sight of a herd of cattle to know one’s beef and there are cattle ranchers who are real cowboys or gauchos out there who know nothing about cooking beef. Yes beef comes from cattle but they are different things that require different sets of expertise to raise or slaughter or butcher or cook.

    Jul 5, 2009 | 12:54 am

     
  138. betty q. says:

    Oh, MM…on a lighter note…I saw trhis episode Great Canadian Something (sorry, I forgot the rest!)…apparently this method of cooking steak is this guy’s specialty. He calls it PITCHFORK Steaks (I thnk!). He has this humongous pitchfork and something that looks like a giant caldero with oil! ( a combination of oils which is his trade secret. Then here’s the fun part…I think about 40 steaks? can fit in his pitchfork and then he lowers it to his VAT of oil! I must say it is something to watch! I remember, I think it was the Alberta Beef episode. Then the whole townspoeple gather in the hall and eat it.

    Jul 5, 2009 | 1:28 am

     
  139. bebot says:

    to ms. betty q.

    best way to a man’s heart :)…my husband still still loves bistek tagalog..17 years and still going

    Jul 5, 2009 | 2:00 am

     
  140. fried-neurons says:

    Basta, call ma makulit. I’m such a carnivore. “May lahing lobo” according to one of my abuelos… I’ve tried so many kinds of beef…

    “ma-anggo” Pinoy beef
    “sariwa” Pinoy beef
    cheap American beef
    USDA choice (usually corn-fed)
    USDA prime (usually corn-fed)
    American grass-fed
    Lobels
    Peter Luger
    Snake River Farms
    Omaha Steaks
    American kobe
    Australian grass-fed
    British
    French
    Icelandic
    Italian
    Uruguayan
    Brazilian
    Japanese kobe/wagyu
    Argentine (always grass-fed)

    …at home and in more steak houses than I care to count… from my childhood cook’s unsuccessful attempts at home and Sizzling Plate at the SM Makati basement in the early 80s, 5-star-hotel restaurants like in 1980s Manila, through the insipid American chains Black Angus and Outback, through nice places big and small in Argentina, France, Iceland, and Hong Kong, down-home steak and smokehouses in Texas and Oklahoma, luxe palaces like Prime and Craftsteak, expense-account places like Forbes Mill, Lawry’s, Morton’s and Ruth’s Chris, and NYC meat temples Smith & Wollensky and Peter Luger.

    Japanese kobe and Argentine beef win the war! With one hand (hoof?) tied behind their backs! Any day of the week and twice on Sunday. Basta.

    As a matter of fact, I actually favor Argentine beef over Japanese kobe. Yes, the Japanese meat is more tender and buttery. But the flavor of the meat from Argentina is better IMHO. Maniwala na kayo sa akin, parang away niyo na. Hindi ko kayo niloloko. :)

    Jul 5, 2009 | 2:36 am

     
  141. Toping says:

    diday — Conflict is always inevitable in any community. I only ask that we be civil the way we go about settling it. Some of the comments to this post have been less than that; it’s one thing to agree with what MM is saying but it’s quite another to resort to name-calling, etc. In the end, the vitriol demeans us as a community. ;-p

    Jul 5, 2009 | 2:53 am

     
  142. Marketman says:

    Pitpat, yes, I think you are correct. A rib eye steak is typically the deboned meaty part of what is referred to as a Prime Rib Roast. The Prime Rib Roast has up to 7 bones from large to less large. And to confuse matters, it need not be graded U.S. Prime, as the name is accepted for whatever bizarre reasons. But suffice it to say you start with a Prime Rib Roast. If you debone it whole, you get the rib eye roasts, if you slice it, you get rib eye steaks. I have a photo of a ribeye roast boneless from the period when no beef with bones was allowed into the country, here. I think there is a photo of some fantastic looking steaks at Mamou, I believe Prime Grade rib eyes, here.

    Now for the bone issue. For some reason, the prime rib roasts I buy or that Santis brings in, vacuum packed and frozen, have their bones cut rather short. Not sure if this is a deliberate request on their part, but the bones are sawed off shorter than you might find in some butchers in the U.S. So when the “cowboy steaks” are cut here, the bone does not extend as much as it appears in some of your links. Further, the bones need to be “frenched” which I think means the meat, muscle and cartillage that clings to the ends of the bone are removed or scraped down to the meaty section, and when the steak cooks, the bones come out “cleaner” and appear to be a “handle”. If you look at the first steak in the photo up top, imagine the bone extended out two inches or so, and the fatty meaty section to the left trimmed, then bone frenched, you would have more of the “cowboy steak” you are suggesting.

    If I recall correctly, for these particular steaks, I bought the ENTIRE rib roast with 7 ribs. These particular steaks are from the smaller end of the rib roast. And contrary to the suggestion of Ms. Hill, one of these steaks is definitely NOT a T-bone, despite the look of the bones. A T-bone or Porterhouse steak is from the next section of the carcass headed to the rear… it contains strip loin meat on one side of the bone, and tenderloin on the other side. Not sure what differentiates between the two, but I think it has something to do with the Porterhouse just being a humongous example with far more tenderloin than a t-bone. There is a photo of an American Prime porterhouse at Peter Luger’s, here. Porterhouses of Chianina beef are what are famously known as Bistecca a la Fiorentina, and I have a good photo of that from the central market in Florence, here… I hope that helps. And no, I was never a professional writer in a previous life, did far better on my math SAT’s and GMAT’s than the verbal section. Still can’t figure out where an apostrophe should be most of the time. But I did grow up in a house with lawyers and critical thinking and logical argumentation at the dinner table. Imagine five of me (and I am the youngest) plus a dad who was a lawyer and his dad a lawyer before him in a lively discussion over whatever the current topic might be. I then went on to be an analyst for a bank, then after graduate school an associate at a strategy consulting firm and onto a Principal at those firms. ALWAYS, always giving great importance to logic, rational and critical thinking. And writing presentations to convey our findings to clients of all sorts. It is this background I think that often comes through on this blog as being a bit OTT. To me, most things can be logically explained (and requires credible sources or research whenever possible), but to some, that way of thinking is anathema…

    Jul 5, 2009 | 3:59 am

     
  143. betty q. says:

    OK, Cai…let’s talk ensaymada.I have been putting off making some for awhile now…I bought ingredients a few day ago to make some for the boys’merienda only to put them back as I was approaching the cashier since I thought about the pain of washing those moulds!

    Oh, I went to the archives, MM and a gentleman named Teddy Arenas (I hope it’s a he and not a she!) wanted to know if there is betty q. reference guide to making commercial ensaymadas.

    So, Mr. Teddy…I went back to the posting on MM’s on ensaymadas and was up till 3 a.m. reading every comment since I wasn’t sure if I commented on one. Are you referring to the exchange of comments between Marc and I? All the things I share here on MM’s site is for NON-PROFITABLE purposes. NOw, if there is someone out there who would want to venture into business using any of the things I have shared here…like Chris who sent me an e-mail asking if she could use them, I told her by all means…Marisse is the Palabok Queen of Cainta now…ECC is the Ensaymada Queen and Sans Rival Queen of Houston…there is PILIPIT KING…Ted is the current title holder of Ensaymada King of LA…just to name a few.

    Anyway, Mang Teddy, if you are looking for a reference guide to my ensaymada, my apologies if you cannot find it here…I literally was “duling” by 3 a.m. for I myself cannot find it!

    Jul 5, 2009 | 5:43 am

     
  144. Scott Kohler says:

    I’m often too impatient to let my steaks rest, but it should be done. The idea behind it is that the juices get a chance to redistribute away from the surface of the meat, and “settle”. This way the thing doesn’t bleed out and become dry when you try to eat it. A piece fo meat in a puddle of juices is a sure sign that you will be having a dry meal.

    I will say that my wife is more than happy to take anything that leaks out of the meat and use it as “sauce” for her rice.

    I work as a professional cook, and we always allow our roasts or grilled meats time to rest before slicing. Keeps it juicy.

    Jul 5, 2009 | 5:45 am

     
  145. Richard says:

    Ageing meat- yes, it’s a good idea to have a high-level drip pan, if only to keep the local dogs and cats away.

    The ambient temperature doesn’t matter much, though the cooler the better. My Cypriot master steak cooker hung his beef in well over 90F.

    If you get fly maggots, then just pick them off and shallow-fry them, with the usual bits and pieces,(soy, garlic, and ginger). They taste like savoury Rice Krispies.

    Not quite ss juicy and succulent as Abatud, the grubs of the coconut beetle, which are much appreciatd around here,
    http://www.coconutstudio.com/Insects.htm

    Jul 5, 2009 | 6:09 am

     
  146. Sam says:

    Speaking of steaks,and to anyone passing through south CZR, This one is committed to memory: Great steak in the unlikeliest place: woodfire-grilled steak at U Dobraka, in Cesky Krumlov, CZR! Walk through the narrow front room into the tiny courtyard, settle on a table and get your fill of out-of this-world rustic slab of carnivore wonder!!

    Jul 5, 2009 | 6:24 am

     
  147. marissewalangkaparis says:

    Wow,I commented yesterday and just 40+ and woke up to 145+ comments already. Lively indeed.

    Gee bettyq,thanks for that input. I will try that. Dry brining. Will buy from the market and see how it goes. But maybe two weeks from now. Have just done my marketing.I do get my steaks from Santi’s as it’s the most accessible to me but we do have wagyu beef available. Still,the prices can be outrageous. Maybe that’s what the Slice and Grill mini restos do here(brining),so they can sell at really low prices..ha ha ha.

    Off topic,gee thanks..look forward to spices. Kakahiya naman…but I truly appreciate them. I must have been looking in the wrong places. Thanks bettyq. Will send my landline and cell on your yahoo.Again,daghan salamat!!As I said hope to meet you someday..have met MM twice already in person.

    Mang Teddy,if you need bettyq’s Ensaymada recipe my ntbk says:Nov 28,2008 (have not checked though if she sent it or I got it from MM’s site,gheez–I should mark it that way from now on). Really long but it’s the sponge and dough method. Really good!! I guess it was about that time that we had Marc Medina’s ensaymada. (yumm!!).Soft as a baby’s bottom.

    For bettyq links-which MM compiled–look at the Jan 31,2009 postings. Hope that helps Mang Teddy!!
    Somehow,bettyq’s recipes fit me to a T. She does the instructions so well it’s so easy to do (complete with tips kasi).Think you,MM and food gurus should co author a book.
    To date,I have thoroughly enjoyed the ensaymada and leche flan blogs. Ha ha ha..I cooked so many leche flans..araw araw after work till I got it really smooth and silky.
    O,awat ne lahat….Luto na ulit tayo—wish we’d have somehing like the “lutothon” we had for the ensaymada and leche flan series. Happy Sunday all!! Awat na. Love you all!! Love this site. Makulay.Masaya!!!
    To the kitchennnnnnn!!!!

    Jul 5, 2009 | 8:01 am

     
  148. Jody says:

    I have to tell you guys that in my own humble opinion, beef from Co. Galway, Ireland is the only beef worth eating. It has to do with the composition of the soil and in turn the Galway grass that the Heifers eat contentedly. The water is truly clean because it is purified by the 3000 mile jet stream across the Atlantic so the Heifers drink the most clear and clean water to be found on the entire planet.

    You have not lived until you have eaten Galway Beef.

    Jul 5, 2009 | 8:10 am

     
  149. sister says:

    Enough already.

    Jul 5, 2009 | 8:33 am

     
  150. pataygutom says:

    Children,

    I do love steak, but I’m not a nerdy / geeky steak connoisseur, and don’t pretend to be one. Logic of my simple mind dictates that I eat my steak as hot as possible (of course as long as my tongue can’t take the heat – hehehe!!). 1 min., 2 min., 30 min., 3 hrs. after serving, bloody hell, whatever makes you happy -> whatever floats your boat. hehehehe!!!

    In the first place, who owns this website? Who is king? Who are the faithful followers? If the king says jump out the window, the followers will. Its as simple as that. hehehehe!!!

    Without saying if right or wrong…. Some cultures can be very direct to the point -> maybe normal for them. Some cultures may find this offensive -> again, maybe normal for them….

    Without saying if right or wrong…. Some people can’t take constructive criticism -> maybe the way of upbringing and partly culture.

    Without saying if right or wrong…. Some peole will just defend to death their leader from outsiders -> maybe unwaivering loyalty or misguided idolatry??

    Life is short my friends!

    Let’s just enjoy are steak!

    Jul 5, 2009 | 9:51 am

     
  151. betty q. says:

    MM…responding to Marisse’s “lutothon”…have you started the Definitive Pinoy Barbecue chronicles?

    I went back to archives about Palabok and you mentioned you haven’t tried making your own? How about a “lutothon” also on Pancit Malabon/Palabok like Aling Rosy’s?…OMG, that is pure carbs!

    I can see Lee with his TINIDOR or chop sticks!…or maybe not! Sorry, Lee …you are just waaaaaaay too quiet these days!

    Jul 5, 2009 | 9:53 am

     
  152. pataygutom says:

    Oh, sorry about my wrong grammar on my previous post. I’m too hungry to write.

    I need some steak! Hehehehe!! Feed “pataygutom” the best steak on the planet!

    BTW, can you guys list down your 10 the best steak restaurants here in Metro Manila?

    Let’s get it on!!!! Steak time!!!! hehehehe!!!

    Jul 5, 2009 | 10:08 am

     
  153. millet says:

    am waiting for the wedding posts – flowers, food, desserts, etc. congratulations, sister..i’m sure it was all wonderful. did you cry at the wedding?

    Jul 5, 2009 | 11:05 am

     
  154. hill roberts says:

    Hi, MM,
    This topic has created such a huge cult following. Your fan base has increased tremendously. Why did I embark on this personal experiment, albeit a foolish one?
    I suppose I wanted to see human behaviour in action. Indeed, the internet is an extremely powerful tool.
    Congratulations, MM. Do accept my sincere apologies. All best wishes!

    Jul 5, 2009 | 12:52 pm

     
  155. Cecilia says:

    I’ve read through the whole post and comments … Had to take a rest a few times, and switch to other sites when I got quite unbearably fired-up … Nicely surprised to find the directly above-stated comment … Finally. Thank you, Hill Roberts … Now we can move on. :D

    Jul 5, 2009 | 2:48 pm

     
  156. pnyorker says:

    This post unexpectedly gone haywire! More exciting than last night’s fireworks i should say. Just because of somebody’s( i dont even want say her name now–because she seemed to be taking credit of MM’s popularity) very imposing comments. And i can’t believe that she still don’t get it. If i’m in her place, i will go for self imposed exile already from this blog.
    MM, rest. i know, it will take atleast a week to recover. If you can not sleep at night…blog some more. more boring stuff because a lot of boring people are waiting, logging on and reading your blog.

    Jul 5, 2009 | 5:49 pm

     
  157. iyoy says:

    richard,

    sandwiching papaya leaves between pieces of steak when ageing in refrigerator sounds the way to do it. is there any appreciable improvement in tenderness?

    once tried blitzing green papaya in blender, slathering the paste on meat surface (wet market “sirloi” cut) then grilling to medium-rare after an overnight stay in ref. no improvement. still tough. perhaps two or three more days in ref would help?

    Jul 5, 2009 | 7:24 pm

     
  158. Lava Bien says:

    Hahahahaha. This was fun and educational.

    Basta no more GLORIA on 2010, pagka’t ako’y sawang sawa na!!!. hehehehe

    Hill Roberts – Good sport there girl!

    Much respect to you MM, such a classy guy. We need more people like you. Just don’t run for office hehehehe! (you might not have the time to blog no more)

    Jul 5, 2009 | 7:54 pm

     
  159. paolo says:

    Ignorance and Attitude— bad combo, Hill Roberts.
    i hope you learned your lesson.

    Jul 5, 2009 | 8:07 pm

     
  160. Richard says:

    @Iyoy
    The enzyme papayin, present in papaya and commercial meat tenderisers needs time and comfort to work.

    If it’s feeling cold and uncomfortable, then it needs
    time to adapt.

    So keep your steaks a few more days.

    Jul 5, 2009 | 8:15 pm

     
  161. Gener says:

    Eating STEAK is depends on someones “LIKES” my kids like it cooler, my wife like it after few minutes and I liked it a lot while still on the grill! i dont wait it to transfer it on a plate,,,i ate it right thru the grill! means i finished it before it was cooked perfectly…

    Jul 5, 2009 | 10:36 pm

     
  162. renee says:

    oooohhh this is fun, back to fishpan days, i love it.

    Jul 5, 2009 | 11:12 pm

     
  163. PitPat says:

    Thank you! MM appreciate the thorough (not surprising) response which is certainly helpful, so much so that I’m now reminded of the proper technical term “frenching,” which escaped me, electing instead for the more general catch-all food prep term..trimmed. I suspect the banning of bone-in imported beef was introduced when mad cow hit (utterly devastating the meat industry globally) and glad to see it is over with. Nothing like having the bone-in on most cuts of meat, imagine having Osso Bucco or our famed Bulalo soup without the bone…sacrilegious!

    For the record, I too let steaks and especially roasts sit for a while after cooking (the time varies depending on size) for the same reason you and the various readers noted..to let meat’s temp settle and the juice re-absorbed and re-distributed in the meat…would not have it any other way. However, I also concede that it is an issue of preference, in fact, the famed chop house you quoted (Peter Luger) serves their steaks piping hot right of the salamander…and though it is touted as NY’s most fabled and best steak house by many…I think there are a number of places that rival or even best it. Also, looks like Mamous (the raw steak pic on your link looks fantastic!) follows the same cooking method as Peter Luger, it seems like they cut the steaks post-cooking but pre-serving and the juice on the plate is tell tale sign it was served very hot. Either way, I will not shy away from steak despite my preferences.

    Thanks! for indulging my curiosity with a peek into your professional background and family life. Impressed with your career history to say the least, and coincidentally I’m hoping to be as blessed with a similar path since currently I’m an analyst for the buy-side institutional practice of an asset management firm, though likely different from the position you held the bank which is probably on portfolio construction or pure research? (instead I’m in IT / Ops)…will not bore you and your readers with dwelling on this but suffice it to say it would be a dream come true for me to achieve as much.

    Last, and not least of course, I could not agree with you more that fundamental! (though sadly anathema to many no doubt) to coherent, insightful, appropriate, and if you’re lucky, brilliant analysis on anything is to apply critical thinking, sound logic and deductive reasoning, and where necessary back it up with good data and research. The only thing left is to ensure that constructing your supposition includes a huge does of humility and respect for the intended reader. Thanks again and a belated Happy Birthday wish to the Mrs. Looking forward to more of your mouth watering posts!

    Regards,
    PitPat

    Jul 6, 2009 | 12:23 am

     
  164. Hirano says:

    HILL ROBERTS, gawa ka ng sarili mong BLOG at magpakatao ka lang sisikat ka balang araw…(sana maintindihan mo ang ibig kong sabihin)

    SA LAHAT, check nyo Blood Pressure nyo ha..hehehe!

    MM, no worries, job well done, accept mo na lang gid ang apologies ng bisita.

    Jul 6, 2009 | 12:27 am

     
  165. susie says:

    you’re so right, paolo. this woman still doesn’t get it. and now she thinks that this is a cult following. i don’t think she knows what that means….

    Jul 6, 2009 | 1:08 am

     
  166. gastronoma says:

    (another lurker here, responding)

    er, no hill roberts. the cult following has been there loooong before your comment. =)

    but anyway…
    so it’s been established that sharing differing opinions is okay, offensive tones are not welcome (and are not encouraged), that this is not a blog for an MM lovefest (though many of us do adore you MM and will fiercely come to your defense), the scientific info has been informative, and the exchange of ideas is simply invigorating.
    that’s that. shall we then move on and, um, let it rest? =D

    Jul 6, 2009 | 1:44 am

     
  167. betty q. says:

    Yes, AMEN to Sister!

    …a new day, a new beginning!…the BEES ARE BACK IN MY GARDEN and my vegetables are happy!

    Hey, Lou…I know you are an avid gardener, too! Do you have cantaloupe or honeydew or watermelon growing in your garden? I will show you how to make them SQUARE! Let’s talk vegetable gardening!

    Hill…hats off to you! YOU ARE A GOOD SPORT! Maybe 1 day if I can get hubby to take me on a European holiday, we can pass by Spain and have coffee with you!

    Iyoy, I am no expert but I think that enzyme papain is present on the black papaya seeds as well. Maybe if you try to blitz the seeds, I think they are edible too and some chefs use them for salad dressings. It is a bit peppery in taste but then you probably might not need to add more pepper to the meat or if you don’t care for the presence of black specks, then squish the daylights out of the seeds to get the liquid and use that with the rest of the marinade.

    I think KURZHAAR would be the BEST RESOURCE PERSON on this matter. What do you think Kurzhaar?

    Jul 6, 2009 | 4:17 am

     
  168. betty q. says:

    Yes, AMEN to Sister!

    …a new day, a new beginning!…the BEES ARE BACK IN MY GARDEN and my vegetables are happy!

    Hey, Lou…I know you are an avid gardener, too! Do you have cantaloupe or honeydew or watermelon growing in your garden? I will show you how to make them SQUARE! Let’s talk vegetable gardening!

    Hill…hats off to you! YOU ARE A GOOD SPORT! Maybe 1 day if I can get hubby to take me on a European holiday, we can pass by Spain and have coffee with you!

    Iyoy, I am no expert but I think that enzyme papain is present on the black papaya seeds as well. Maybe if you try to blitz the seeds, I think they are edible too and some chefs use them for salad dressings. It is a bit peppery in taste but then you probably might not need to add more pepper to the meat or if you don’t care for the presence of black specks, then squish the daylights out of the seeds to get the liquid and use that with the rest of the marinade.

    I think KURZHAAR would be the BEST RESOURCE PERSON on this matter. What do you think Kurzhaar?

    Jul 6, 2009 | 4:17 am

     
  169. malibucat says:

    to Hill:

    the steaks in the photo may look dry to you but i would suspect that’s because they are perfectly seared outside with the juices locked in. to have a steak oozing with its juices BEFORE it’s cut means the cook didn’t have a clue on how to correctly prepare it in the first place and allowed the ever-important flavor-loaded juices of the meat to dribble out. that is a crime born out of ignorance.

    if you live in a “cold environment” such as yours, i can understand why one would think it is best to bite into meat fresh off the flames within seconds. however, you are missing the glorious experience of succulent and juicy beef if you do not let it rest for a few minutes to allow the juices to go back in. haste makes waste.

    perhaps a warming drawer installed in your cold kitchen would help? i am quite certain you would find this in europe.

    Jul 6, 2009 | 5:24 am

     
  170. Connie C says:

    WOW MM, See what you get when you go AWAY!!!

    Just got back from New York myself for our class’ 45th year reunion, and of course had no time for the internet for 3 days. Would you believe I read every post (July 4), and nearly got as duling as Bettyq from going over old posts? Everyone must be suffering from MM posting withdrawal, 167 comments and still going!!!

    And Betty Q, I was going to say ,you are the only lunatic who grills in subzero weather in Vancouver (“as it seems a bit ridiculous to picture folks in Scandinavia or Canada outdoors at their grill in the middle of a snowstorm” MM). I know you were grilling when Vancouver was buried in snow last winter. BTW, have you made your reservations at the Casa yet?

    As far as steaks? I like them , but am I not trying to convince you all for the sake of Planet Earth to skip meat one day each week if you can? YES, YOU CAN!

    And…… we love you MM, warts and all.

    Jul 6, 2009 | 6:09 am

     
  171. sister says:

    Millet, Thanks for your good wishes. Didn’t sleep for 48 hrs. before the wedding and the cake was not what I had planned on but never mind, it was just a photo op. But the little give away mini wedding cakes were a big hit- it took the cousins days to put them all together, bayanihan spirit prevailed at the fiesta. Flowers by MM were spectacular even though he was so sick he could barely stand. Hope he shows some pictures of the flowers and the mini cakes once he gets back from the weekend.

    Jul 6, 2009 | 7:38 am

     
  172. betty q. says:

    I thought you were ill or something, Doc! And yes, I am the current titleholder of NO HOLDS BARRED from Barbecuing!

    Yup, My reservations are already in place….still have to convince my Ate to come with me but she is `sort of wishy-washy!

    You`d think I will be sort of sawa of seafood by this time after DOING TIME at THE CANNERY….hahahaha… But I will take seafood over rib steak or filet mignon anytime…hands down! Hey, Doc…your strawberry jam will be mailed if you are going to be around this summer. Please send me your address since I cleaned my inbox just the other day.

    MM, it is BARBECUE SEASON here and I am dying to read your PINOY BARBECUE chronicles.

    Jul 6, 2009 | 8:00 am

     
  173. rt gonzales says:

    Hi MM,

    Gil and I are finally doing an organic farming seminar in CEBU by August 2009.

    I will have my steak there perhaps….after it rests 7-8 minutes.

    Jul 6, 2009 | 9:13 am

     
  174. Artisan Chocolatier says:

    rt gonzales….please post (with MM’s indulgence) when and where will you have your organic farming seminar in Cebu. I will be interested to attend.

    Jul 6, 2009 | 9:26 am

     
  175. Marcus Von Gutten says:

    While I agree with everyone in this site that Hill has worded her comment in an offensive manner, I choose to look beyond her comment and realize that what she is saying is that she prefers her meat hot off the grill. That remains a preference and her opinion is valid. Her further comments have just drawn the ire of the commenters.

    I do agree with her with the fact that a lot of the commenters in this site seem to swoon all over Marketman’s every word. Yes, he is very worldly, well-traveled and is a good cook. But I believe it is unfair for everyone to gang up on Hill in defense of their “beloved” Marketman.

    It seems that they have taken a very PERSONAL offense to her comment to Marketman and they are willing to fight tooth and nail because of this perceived slight. Things have turned ugly and it is like the commenters have taken a mob mentality and they choose to insult Hill rather than take the high road.

    I do not agree with her statement that this site is boring. I do believe that Marketman raises good and interesting topics in this site. Although, I find that plenty of the commenters in this site are all too ready to swoon and agree with Marketman.

    I don’t take away from your right to agree with him. But in the same way, no one should blame me for finding this site boring too because everyone seems to fail to see that disagreements are part of having a website. Hell, Marketman deemed it ok to dedicate one entire post to disgree with one comment (a step too far in my opinion).

    Jul 6, 2009 | 10:01 am

     
  176. Cherrypajamas says:

    MM, your site kept me company whilst eating alone (ate in front of my laptop) and made my most menial of viands (usually something canned and a lot of rice, because i had no time to cook due to my job as a marketing officer for a beverage company) akin to a gourmet meal. Really. No kidding. And no, this is not buttering up (what would I get from MM honestly? his prized heirloom recipes?an acknowledgment in this blog?) Most of us here are lurkers but when we see something that tugs at our -um- tastebuds, we cannot help but leave a comment. In my case, it was the mangga with bagoong. hay. It’s a good thing I am a Zamboangueno, and Alavar’s bagoong and Alavar sauce is readily available, just a 3 minute drive from my house hehe. With others, it could have been a bowl of piping hot sinigang na baboy (imagined pleasure in the dead of winter), others still the ever popular artery clogging pang fiesta size lechon. Iba talaga pag naishare mo sa kapwa mo Filipino yung experiences mo sa ibang bansa, and what better medium than food? (which is the universal language, in my opinion) . My point is this blog brought a lot of us together, albeit the distances and not even knowing each other’s real names, but in the name of food we have this little family who shares recipes, experiences, ideas and love for all food na masasarap. Hindi ba nakakatuwa iyon? So forgive me for adding one more little comment, but boring is one word I would never associate with this blog or the MarketManila community. Just my two cents.

    Anyhow, on to the steak, has anyone ever tried the steaks at the Del Monte Clubhouse and The Bungalow (also by Del Monte) at the Del Monte plantation in Manolo Fortich Bukidnon? They say that the cows are pineapple fed and results in a sweet tasting meat. Everytime I am in Cagayan de Oro, I make sure to take some time out and take a 30 minute drive to Cawayanon, San Miguel in Manolo Fortich where the Del Monte clubhouse is located and just “beef” out. =)

    Jul 6, 2009 | 10:09 am

     
  177. Connie C says:

    Bettyq, check your email for response. Sorry MM, but bettyq lives here.

    Jul 6, 2009 | 10:19 am

     
  178. Marketman says:

    Hill, an experiment, I think not. But thanks for the apology. Everyone else, enjoy your steaks however you please… But if you ask me, I let my steak rest. And good grief, what’s with the swooning? :)

    Jul 6, 2009 | 10:31 am

     
  179. Epi says:

    Hi all I could’nt resist….This Fishpan Awardee reminds me of Omarosa from the apprentice. Her 5 mins of fame perhaps??? May the fleas of a thousand camels………….hehehe if anyone remembers.

    Jul 6, 2009 | 10:40 am

     
  180. Lilibeth says:

    Marcus Van Gutten: What’s with the contradiction?…..”I do not agree with her statement that this site is boring” ….”no one should blame me for finding this site boring too”. This blog brought a lot of loving people who share recipes and help each other and disagree with RESPECT which is really how people with good breeding should act. The only reason why hill roberts got the heat is because of her insulting remarks to Marketman and to us too which in my opinion, is CHEAP AND RUBBISH. Yes, we love Marketman and we get tons of love too from our family and friends that is why we act with so much love for each other and therefore, we have no reason to go around insulting each other and that is not mob mentality. Yes, disagreements are part of a website and “educated” people do it with respect and humility. There is so much joy in our lives that whenever we voice out our disagreement, we do it with love and respect and not us an insult. Let’s face it, people who do that sometimes have a lot of issues in their lives and are not loved by the people around them. Lastly, we don’t swoon (are you envious? then put up your own blog, please) and people have disagreed with Marketman but they don’t get the heat because it is worded properly.

    Marketman: My rib eye looked exactly like yours – well seared and oh so juicy and tender! Worked well with the lobster tails.

    Jul 6, 2009 | 11:37 am

     
  181. sanojmd says:

    swooning?? i beg to disagree. why would i swoon over marketman’s every word??i would not get anything in return by doing that. and why would i waste my time saying high praises for him if i am insincere in doing that? i visit this blog simply because of good food, eloquent writings, and good insights from well-mannered, down to earth commenters and if i don’t like the post, i just don’t leave a comment or maybe say it in a non-offensive way.. others have gone ballistic but there is a reason for it. not just to gang up on someone else because her comments were on the contrary. it is more than that… swooning??? i don’t think so..

    Jul 6, 2009 | 11:43 am

     
  182. mojito drinker says:

    go MM =)

    Jul 6, 2009 | 12:32 pm

     
  183. Marcus Von Gutten says:

    Lilibeth,

    I believe I said that Marketman’s posts are interesting but I agree with Hill saying that things get boring when people are all too ready to agree with everything Marketman posts.

    I am not attacking anyone here. I beleive Marketman is a good blogger and he knows his stuff. The commenters are also educated and have good breeding. I just take offense to the commenters who seem to attack personally. I believe refuting Hill’s statements are good enough of a retort. Marketman did that very well even if it did take one posts.

    However name-calling (“Inday”) and comments from a certain susie…

    “JUST SHUT UP, HILL ROBERTS. SAVE YOUR INK… NOBODY CARES OM WHAT’S IN YOUR MIND. NOT WORTH A PENNY… ”

    …make it look like you’re all ganging up on Hill. She was worded her comment wrong and yes she continued to defend her stand with some attitude (only becuase she was already being called names) but name-calling and degrading a person’s worth should not be condoned.

    If opinions are “NOT WORTH A PENNY” then Marketman should simply remove the comment section of this blog.

    Passionate defense of Marketman is different from downright disrespect.

    Jul 6, 2009 | 12:35 pm

     
  184. Marcus Von Gutten says:

    Oh. Lastly I am not jelous. I am just giving my opinion on the general tone of the commenters to Marketman.

    I agree with a lot of the things he says but the lovefest can sometimes be a little too much.

    But hey, good for him right?

    Jul 6, 2009 | 12:38 pm

     
  185. Lex says:

    There are a million and one ways to show agreement and difference in opinion. Though most show their agreement willingly, there are also many in the past who have shared their disagreements in many ways. I often do not agree with MM or some readers but have learned to choose my battles. It is just that some have chosen to show total disrespect for the blogger. If you cannot disagree kindly, you are free to stop reading. People become followers not because they kiss the ground MM walks on but because it has become a relationship of mutual learning and respect. That is why many have reacted quite violently. It is like a family member has been attacked. So with all due respect, differences in opinions are always welcome. What makes this blog great is not just reading the insights and experiences of the blogger but getting feedback. There are many blogs that seem to be an ego trip by the blogger by just dumping their ideas but never responding to comments and opinions. There is a man at the end of the blog and we enjoy what he has to say.

    Jul 6, 2009 | 1:48 pm

     
  186. yen arboleda says:

    People “swoon” over MM’s entries because many, many times, the articles in this blog strike a personal chord in the readers. Marketman does not twist anyone’s arm or even tries all that hard to make people “swoon” over his site. His entries, for example, on the lowly ensaymada brought many readers back to their childhood days, back when life was simple and carefree and always fun. Now, who or what could do that to people nowadays? What’s wrong with giving MM a few encouraging words for hosting a great blog?

    I can readily glean from the comments that MM’s readers are themselves experienced and well-travelled citizens of the world, the kind who will not be told to to swoon over someone even if you pay them. The swooning, therefore, is simply a natural expression of gratitude for something that MM wrote that made somebody’s day a tad brighter.

    For those who do not enjoy that warm and fuzzy feeling that this blog often evoke, the door is wide open (and i am now gesturing towards the door with a bow…although technically it’s not my door…and technically its not a door) for you to walk out on to enjoy other blogs where there are no ensaymadas, empanadas, airline updates, and lechon stories.

    Jul 6, 2009 | 1:52 pm

     
  187. iyoy says:

    richard, bettyq

    thanks. will try your suggestions

    Jul 6, 2009 | 2:07 pm

     
  188. Lilibeth says:

    Lex: Very well said and I agree with you wholeheartedly. I visit other blog sites but this one is on the top of my list, in fact, I’m so excited to go to the internet because of this and yes, we are like family here and we learn from each other. Thank you for pointing that out.

    Jul 6, 2009 | 2:16 pm

     
  189. cai says:

    Betty Q, have you tried the ensaymada with small slices of bacon inside?

    Jul 6, 2009 | 2:24 pm

     
  190. Artisan Chocolatier says:

    Marcus Von Gutten…In the previous post “A Birthday Lunch”..

    hill roberts said this about me

    “My apologies for misspelling your “screen name”, Artisan Chocolatier. Your name is too fancy and phoney, hence, my difficulty in reading pretentious French.”

    I find it personally insulting for her to say that my screen name is too fancy and phoney but have not hit back on her because of my breeding.

    While I may have started this flare-up with my stating the fact that she was out-of-order when she opinionated that MM was wrong in his advice to rest the steak. I did not insult her by calling her names. Neither was I “swooning” to MM when I reminded HR that we are all guest here and we should give a little respect to the host. Would you allow your house guest to say in your face that your cooking is stinks?

    Now, please tell me, who started throwing personal insults here….me or HR?

    That being said…I REST MY STEAK!!

    Jul 6, 2009 | 2:28 pm

     
  191. Artisan Chocolatier says:

    pardon the insertion of “is” between cooking and stinks

    Jul 6, 2009 | 2:31 pm

     
  192. Artisan Chocolatier says:

    Allow me to re-phrase my 2nd to the last paragraph…

    Now, please tell me, who started throwing personal insults here….me or Hill Roberts or the other commenters ?

    Jul 6, 2009 | 2:42 pm

     
  193. sanojmd says:

    wilde: giving opinion and judging people are 2 different things.. you can give your opinion in a nice and polite way.. but ms hill roberts did otherwise. she started throwing punches not only on MM but also on artisan.. we just hit back. she did not just gave her opinion in a plain and simple way.. she judged MM with these statements.. “I wouldn’t even dream of telling people to eat steaks 7-8 minutes after cooking…this time, MM, your advice is rather wrong. Besides, the steaks shown above look dry.” … and she did not stop.. she also attacked artisan with her below the belt statements ” My apologies for misspelling your “screen name”, Artisan Chocolatier. Your name is too fancy and phoney, hence, my difficulty in reading pretentious French.”…

    a kid who just tried to fight back after being bullied perhaps is not someone i will call a spoiled centered kid..

    Jul 6, 2009 | 3:08 pm

     
  194. Marcus Von Gutten says:

    Lex, I agree with your statement that there are plenty ways to disagree with someone. And I will add that I do not have the same relationship many of you have with Marketman.

    I also agree with Hill being wrong in plenty of things she has said.

    But I would like to bring up a post of susie where she posts:

    “hill roberts, you’re disgusting! you are so full of it. your breedng is questionable. a very opinionated woman like you should never be listened to. it’s not worth it…”

    This type of replies should not be condoned. These types of replies make me say that people “swoon” (a generalization on my end). These types of replies should not be condoned. I see how everyone has responded to Hill but no one has deemed it proper to respond to such posts by your “family member.” That’s what I meant by ganging up. You pointed out Hill’s mistakes but very few have chosen to stop fellow commenters on posting such insults.

    But like I said, I do not have any intentions of attacking anyone. I am merely giving my opinion in this matter.

    And to Artisan, Hill was wrong for calling you such names. You have responded well to her verbal attacks and I would like to commend you for your educated comments.

    I am not taking anyones side. I am merely pointing out how I see this discussion and this blog. I apologize for any people I may have offended with my words.

    Jul 6, 2009 | 3:08 pm

     
  195. betty q. says:

    Cai: I don’t think I have tasted ensaymada yet with bacon slices …that sounds good…But I have done it with scones…soooooo good with caramelized onions and green onions plus the bacon and cheese!

    Jul 6, 2009 | 3:12 pm

     
  196. sanojmd says:

    betty q: i would like to thank u for your chocolate recipe.. i just made it a a week ago.. and it was soooo good.. i feel like i’m a pastry chef with the result.. lol. thanks betty q! btw, is your ensaymada recipe as tedious as time-consuming as MM’s? do u mind sharing it with me?? thanks!

    Jul 6, 2009 | 3:17 pm

     
  197. Gener says:

    I agree with marcus,,its a give and take situation here, we should accept everyones ideas as all of us here haves different culture,taste,way of life and environment as well but the fact that we are all human being that needs to eat maybe not in common way! We may find too that! what everyones idea here is based from his/her own understanding and certainly its everyones clear and transparent idea! Everyone can express his own feeling i believed and ofcourse that whats they knows right in the way that it differs from our own nature of lets say “EATING”…
    Our host MM knows ofcourse that there will be rude words or whatever insulting phrases occured but as they says, it added challenges and to make this place not boring! MM or anyone of us here is not perfect and everyone makes mistakes and that is acceptable ofcourse and we should not enhanced it with senseless attacks!…Why dont we just go ahead with food talks again were getting far out of it!! PEACE!!!

    Jul 6, 2009 | 3:22 pm

     
  198. botchok says:

    Cai, are you from Laguna? because there’s a famous bakery shop in Laguna where they make ensaymada with bacon strips inside and it was so good.I remember because it is my favorite “baon sa School” during my childhood days.

    Jul 6, 2009 | 3:23 pm

     
  199. Lex says:

    I agree with you, marcus. I do not make excuses for these people who have gotten out of line. Out-of-line is the same in any culture or background. People are definitely not created equal.On the brighter side of things………………

    Jul 6, 2009 | 3:46 pm

     
  200. Marcus Von Gutten says:

    I think I have said enough on this topic.

    Again, I apologize for my words should they have offended anyone in anyway.

    I will return to lurker mode now.

    Jul 6, 2009 | 3:48 pm

     
  201. Lee says:

    Pork is more peaceful

    Jul 6, 2009 | 4:25 pm

     
  202. Batangueno says:

    Hay naku. Tama na po. Ika nga ni Rodney King “Can we get along?” Kung hindi naman, ay batuhan na lang kaldero’t kawali at sampalan ng steak…para mailabas ang naipong galit at inis. Magandang therapy po yan. Pagkatapos ay kalimutan na ang nakalipas at magsimula muli ng panibagong pagluluto at tsikahan.

    Jul 6, 2009 | 4:36 pm

     
  203. betty q. says:

    Ala,eh Batangueno! Sabi ng Nanayko… Ibig mo baga sabihin ay “tampalan ng steak? Aba, eh, di gaganda ang ating mga mata at mawawala ang ating “baggy eyes”!!!…Ay, binibiro laang kita!

    Jul 6, 2009 | 4:48 pm

     
  204. Cris Jose says:

    Hi, MM!!!
    From the looks of it… matindi ang jet lag mo… LOL!!!

    Jul 6, 2009 | 6:21 pm

     
  205. Hatari says:

    Peace

    or rather…Piece….. of steak, rested or not….whatever turns you on

    Jul 6, 2009 | 6:38 pm

     
  206. Marketman says:

    Okay, let’s call it QUITS on this post, shall we? I have been looking for several minutes but can’t figure out how to disable or stop more comments on just a single post. If I do figure it out, I will use it. If not, I suggest you spend your time better visiting the archives. THANK YOU. Yes, I found it. This is the LAST COMMENT on this post.

    Jul 6, 2009 | 6:55 pm

     
 

Market Manila Home · Topics · Archives · About · Contact · Links · RSS Feed

site design by pixelpush

Market Manila © 2004 - 2017