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	Comments on: If You&#8217;re Trying to Take a Swipe at Someone, Make Sure You are ARMED with ALL THE RELEVANT FACTS!	</title>
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		<title>
		By: Mart		</title>
		<link>https://www.marketmanila.com/archives/if-youre-trying-to-take-a-swipe-at-someone-make-sure-you-are-armed-with-all-the-relevant-facts#comment-630123</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mart]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jan 2014 23:36:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketmanila.com/?p=33842#comment-630123</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Since I have some free time to kill while waiting on some work events, I have a few other ideas to throw out there.
Some politicians here in the US bandy about the idea that &quot;corporations are people&quot; which, imho, is a load of crap.  But then that is a legally true statement that enables corporations to donate loads of money to campaigns of politicians.
Anyway, from a tax perspective, the difference between a business and an individual is that the business can deduct &quot;business expenses&quot; from its gross earnings so that the net earnings are what is taxed.
That is the major advantage a business has over an individual.  An individual also needs to spend on necessities to go on living but can&#039;t deduct &quot;living expenses&quot; from his gross earnings so that his taxable net earnings are lower.

So that&#039;s why taxing income is kinda &quot;bass-ackwards&quot; and taxing sales/consumption is another way to think about it.

Sales/consumption is the lubricant of the economy and a sales tax kinda encourages saving, so less velocity of money.  But then again, even the current system (VAT taxes essentially are taxes on the sales of most items) hasn&#039;t really curbed spending.  And without an income tax, people would have more money to spend.

Seems to be &quot;spenders gonna spend, savers gonna save.&quot; regardless of how the tax system is structured.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Since I have some free time to kill while waiting on some work events, I have a few other ideas to throw out there.<br />
Some politicians here in the US bandy about the idea that &#8220;corporations are people&#8221; which, imho, is a load of crap.  But then that is a legally true statement that enables corporations to donate loads of money to campaigns of politicians.<br />
Anyway, from a tax perspective, the difference between a business and an individual is that the business can deduct &#8220;business expenses&#8221; from its gross earnings so that the net earnings are what is taxed.<br />
That is the major advantage a business has over an individual.  An individual also needs to spend on necessities to go on living but can&#8217;t deduct &#8220;living expenses&#8221; from his gross earnings so that his taxable net earnings are lower.</p>
<p>So that&#8217;s why taxing income is kinda &#8220;bass-ackwards&#8221; and taxing sales/consumption is another way to think about it.</p>
<p>Sales/consumption is the lubricant of the economy and a sales tax kinda encourages saving, so less velocity of money.  But then again, even the current system (VAT taxes essentially are taxes on the sales of most items) hasn&#8217;t really curbed spending.  And without an income tax, people would have more money to spend.</p>
<p>Seems to be &#8220;spenders gonna spend, savers gonna save.&#8221; regardless of how the tax system is structured.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Mart		</title>
		<link>https://www.marketmanila.com/archives/if-youre-trying-to-take-a-swipe-at-someone-make-sure-you-are-armed-with-all-the-relevant-facts#comment-630122</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Mart]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Jan 2014 23:25:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketmanila.com/?p=33842#comment-630122</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I remember some politician running for office (don&#039;t remember if it was a Philippine or US politico) proposing doing away with all taxes (income tax included) and instituting a flat tax on all sales.
The idea being is if you spend/consume more, you pay more tax.  If you save, you defer taxes until the time you do buy something.  Anything from a pandesal bun to a house up to a whole condominium building would be subject to the same tax rate.
Rich people, with more disposable money, you spend on pricier items if they weren&#039;t frugal.

I thought it was a very simple and brilliant scheme.  Way better than graduated tax brackets depending on income.  And besides, the super rich with lots of money to throw around don&#039;t get a majority of their money from high incomes; they get it from stock sales/dividends so a graduated income tax bracket is only really felt by a small minority of the upper middle class (some high management, individuals in the entertainment industry, etc.)

The poor getting taxed at the same rate would probably still come out better for it since you don&#039;t usually accurately declare the sale of all your pandesals.  Nor does the typical sari-sari store operate with a business permit and declare figures for taxes at present.

The problem with adding complexity to the tax code means you introduce more holes which those with more money can exploit to their advantage.

Now if all bank records were transparent, you could see where the money is coming and going and transparency/clarity is the enemy of those who want to circumvent the system.  Obfuscation and secrecy are the tools of the corrupt that&#039;s why they can get away with things.  But then, everyone has skeletons in their closet so total transparency is a paradigm shift that would be a very hard sell to anyone.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I remember some politician running for office (don&#8217;t remember if it was a Philippine or US politico) proposing doing away with all taxes (income tax included) and instituting a flat tax on all sales.<br />
The idea being is if you spend/consume more, you pay more tax.  If you save, you defer taxes until the time you do buy something.  Anything from a pandesal bun to a house up to a whole condominium building would be subject to the same tax rate.<br />
Rich people, with more disposable money, you spend on pricier items if they weren&#8217;t frugal.</p>
<p>I thought it was a very simple and brilliant scheme.  Way better than graduated tax brackets depending on income.  And besides, the super rich with lots of money to throw around don&#8217;t get a majority of their money from high incomes; they get it from stock sales/dividends so a graduated income tax bracket is only really felt by a small minority of the upper middle class (some high management, individuals in the entertainment industry, etc.)</p>
<p>The poor getting taxed at the same rate would probably still come out better for it since you don&#8217;t usually accurately declare the sale of all your pandesals.  Nor does the typical sari-sari store operate with a business permit and declare figures for taxes at present.</p>
<p>The problem with adding complexity to the tax code means you introduce more holes which those with more money can exploit to their advantage.</p>
<p>Now if all bank records were transparent, you could see where the money is coming and going and transparency/clarity is the enemy of those who want to circumvent the system.  Obfuscation and secrecy are the tools of the corrupt that&#8217;s why they can get away with things.  But then, everyone has skeletons in their closet so total transparency is a paradigm shift that would be a very hard sell to anyone.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Marketman		</title>
		<link>https://www.marketmanila.com/archives/if-youre-trying-to-take-a-swipe-at-someone-make-sure-you-are-armed-with-all-the-relevant-facts#comment-629525</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marketman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jan 2014 03:15:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketmanila.com/?p=33842#comment-629525</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Sarah, on business transactions, I tend to agree with you, a flat tax would be easier and fairer to apply across the board.  For personal income tax, however, I do believe that the wealthy should pay more than the minimum wage earners, hence a graduated tax system for personal income would be more appropriate.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Sarah, on business transactions, I tend to agree with you, a flat tax would be easier and fairer to apply across the board.  For personal income tax, however, I do believe that the wealthy should pay more than the minimum wage earners, hence a graduated tax system for personal income would be more appropriate.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Sarah		</title>
		<link>https://www.marketmanila.com/archives/if-youre-trying-to-take-a-swipe-at-someone-make-sure-you-are-armed-with-all-the-relevant-facts#comment-629381</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Sarah]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Jan 2014 06:33:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketmanila.com/?p=33842#comment-629381</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[If the gov&#039;t is sincere in daang matuwid, the first thing they should do is to conduct lifestyle checks on all gov&#039;t officials, employees and those elected into office.  Any mismatch in the assets they (and their family) own and income they&#039;ve declared over the years should result in confiscation of the asset/s.  Then it becomes pointless for gov&#039;t officials and employees to accumulate assets way beyond their income.  To achieve this, we need a strong judicial system.  Sadly, we don&#039;t have it ;-( 

Also agree with comment 85, that we should have a flat tax system, where the basis for taxes would be sales.  So the BIR just checks and keeps track of a company&#039;s sales.  Simple and less prone to &quot;negotiations.&quot;   

Thanks for sharing MM.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If the gov&#8217;t is sincere in daang matuwid, the first thing they should do is to conduct lifestyle checks on all gov&#8217;t officials, employees and those elected into office.  Any mismatch in the assets they (and their family) own and income they&#8217;ve declared over the years should result in confiscation of the asset/s.  Then it becomes pointless for gov&#8217;t officials and employees to accumulate assets way beyond their income.  To achieve this, we need a strong judicial system.  Sadly, we don&#8217;t have it ;-( </p>
<p>Also agree with comment 85, that we should have a flat tax system, where the basis for taxes would be sales.  So the BIR just checks and keeps track of a company&#8217;s sales.  Simple and less prone to &#8220;negotiations.&#8221;   </p>
<p>Thanks for sharing MM.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Faust		</title>
		<link>https://www.marketmanila.com/archives/if-youre-trying-to-take-a-swipe-at-someone-make-sure-you-are-armed-with-all-the-relevant-facts#comment-629261</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Faust]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Jan 2014 13:14:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketmanila.com/?p=33842#comment-629261</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[hello mm did bir pick this rant up? i hope i was settled peacefulky]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>hello mm did bir pick this rant up? i hope i was settled peacefulky</p>
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		<title>
		By: MP		</title>
		<link>https://www.marketmanila.com/archives/if-youre-trying-to-take-a-swipe-at-someone-make-sure-you-are-armed-with-all-the-relevant-facts#comment-628856</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[MP]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jan 2014 05:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketmanila.com/?p=33842#comment-628856</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[This + the knowledge that we have to pay VAT on our association dues and Forbes Park/Dasma residents don&#039;t... Ahhhh BIR, how I hate you....]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This + the knowledge that we have to pay VAT on our association dues and Forbes Park/Dasma residents don&#8217;t&#8230; Ahhhh BIR, how I hate you&#8230;.</p>
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		By: Marketman		</title>
		<link>https://www.marketmanila.com/archives/if-youre-trying-to-take-a-swipe-at-someone-make-sure-you-are-armed-with-all-the-relevant-facts#comment-628833</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marketman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jan 2014 02:37:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketmanila.com/?p=33842#comment-628833</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Dr. Nick, technically I would have to agree with you and others that VAT is a pass on tax and meant to be.  However, the reality is when VAT was introduced, prices overall did NOT rise by 12% nor did inflation jump dramatically, which seems to suggest a lot of tax was partially absorbed by companies.  However, ultimately, consumers pay for ALL taxes, as it is their business that generates production or service and it is that production or service that results in taxes and revenues for government.

Mark, I think folks still view the whole thing in relative terms.  Compared to some of the other candidates for President at the time, I am still confident Noy has done a reasonable job.  I don&#039;t think it is ideal, but I am very much a pragmatist now, and would rather have him than some of the others who were in the running.  Perhaps Gibo would have been another good choice, but who knows what a Teodoro presidency would have turned out like... I still believe Mar would have been a better choice than Binay, but ultimately, I am but one voter, and I made my choices and have to live with it. 	 Lots of folks echoed similar sentiments as yours with respect to Gloria and we had her for 10 years...]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dr. Nick, technically I would have to agree with you and others that VAT is a pass on tax and meant to be.  However, the reality is when VAT was introduced, prices overall did NOT rise by 12% nor did inflation jump dramatically, which seems to suggest a lot of tax was partially absorbed by companies.  However, ultimately, consumers pay for ALL taxes, as it is their business that generates production or service and it is that production or service that results in taxes and revenues for government.</p>
<p>Mark, I think folks still view the whole thing in relative terms.  Compared to some of the other candidates for President at the time, I am still confident Noy has done a reasonable job.  I don&#8217;t think it is ideal, but I am very much a pragmatist now, and would rather have him than some of the others who were in the running.  Perhaps Gibo would have been another good choice, but who knows what a Teodoro presidency would have turned out like&#8230; I still believe Mar would have been a better choice than Binay, but ultimately, I am but one voter, and I made my choices and have to live with it. 	 Lots of folks echoed similar sentiments as yours with respect to Gloria and we had her for 10 years&#8230;</p>
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		<title>
		By: mark		</title>
		<link>https://www.marketmanila.com/archives/if-youre-trying-to-take-a-swipe-at-someone-make-sure-you-are-armed-with-all-the-relevant-facts#comment-628821</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[mark]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 17 Jan 2014 01:26:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketmanila.com/?p=33842#comment-628821</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[&quot;Kim Henares’s approach merely mirrors what this gov’t and its self-righteous overlord at the top has been doing all along: Persecution without evidence; buck passing; refusing to man up to their failures; etc., all to hide their glaring incompetence. Not really surprised why they hit on the small ones while letting the really big fishes friendly with the “Yellow Army” get away with murder and everything else. :(&quot;

Exactly! It&#039;s so sad that the yellow army still fails to see how incompetent Noynoy is despite this. And, the irony of this post is the author still believes in Noynoy. It&#039;s like saying someone is beautiful but has an ugly face. The worst part is, everyone suffers. Even those who at the very start saw how big of a disaster a Noynoy presidency would  be.]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Kim Henares’s approach merely mirrors what this gov’t and its self-righteous overlord at the top has been doing all along: Persecution without evidence; buck passing; refusing to man up to their failures; etc., all to hide their glaring incompetence. Not really surprised why they hit on the small ones while letting the really big fishes friendly with the “Yellow Army” get away with murder and everything else. :(&#8221;</p>
<p>Exactly! It&#8217;s so sad that the yellow army still fails to see how incompetent Noynoy is despite this. And, the irony of this post is the author still believes in Noynoy. It&#8217;s like saying someone is beautiful but has an ugly face. The worst part is, everyone suffers. Even those who at the very start saw how big of a disaster a Noynoy presidency would  be.</p>
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		<title>
		By: Dr Nick		</title>
		<link>https://www.marketmanila.com/archives/if-youre-trying-to-take-a-swipe-at-someone-make-sure-you-are-armed-with-all-the-relevant-facts#comment-628372</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Dr Nick]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Jan 2014 17:20:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketmanila.com/?p=33842#comment-628372</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[I regularly do business research along the lines of your article. I don&#039;t think you should count VAT as taxes paid by your company. They are taxes paid by consumers that you merely pass on to the government (offset by the VAT you paid, as obviosuly corporations don&#039;t pay VAT). But in any case, well done for at least passing on the VAT you collect - I think that&#039;s pretty outrageous that companies would not do so!
Also, please keep up these rant posts against shoddy research, journalism etc in the Philippines, they are by far my favourite posts!	]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I regularly do business research along the lines of your article. I don&#8217;t think you should count VAT as taxes paid by your company. They are taxes paid by consumers that you merely pass on to the government (offset by the VAT you paid, as obviosuly corporations don&#8217;t pay VAT). But in any case, well done for at least passing on the VAT you collect &#8211; I think that&#8217;s pretty outrageous that companies would not do so!<br />
Also, please keep up these rant posts against shoddy research, journalism etc in the Philippines, they are by far my favourite posts!	</p>
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		<title>
		By: Marketman		</title>
		<link>https://www.marketmanila.com/archives/if-youre-trying-to-take-a-swipe-at-someone-make-sure-you-are-armed-with-all-the-relevant-facts#comment-627975</link>

		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Marketman]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 12 Jan 2014 23:23:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.marketmanila.com/?p=33842#comment-627975</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[James, thanks for that, and I agree BIR should not be considered an enemy, and neither should businesses be seen as such...

On your clarification of MCIT, I have reverted to actual financial statements, and corrected the post above.  While it seems the MCIT percentage was given as an explanation to me, the actual financial statements show a much larger gross income than you suggest (closer to 35%), a lot of legitimate operating expenses and deductions, a very minimal net income and 32% tax on that income.  

You are right in that margins were tight in the first year, but not as tight as you suggest. Meat/pork has some of the smallest margins of any major restaurant protein (beef perhaps being worse), that&#039;s why you see so many chicken places.  Our retail price for lechon was on average, PHP450-490 when we opened and during our first year, and gross margins were just 20-25% of that.  Whole lechons have even more modest margins, as I am sure any BIR rep can calculate.  Of course we sold other food items that improved the overall margins.  If you were in Manila, and sold lechon at say PHP750-800 a kilo, you would be closer to your example of 50% you suggest.  It was expenses, including staffing, rent, etc. that brought net incomes down in our first year of operation.  In our second year, things change noticeably and I am hope they will improve in our third year...  If the BIR has to take ads out, wouldn&#039;t it be helpful to list Purveyor, Total Sales, VAT paid, Other taxes paid and Income taxes paid?  Wouldn&#039;t that present a better/clearer  picture, and a natural comparison amongst companies in a similar industry -- rather than a shotgun approach? ]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James, thanks for that, and I agree BIR should not be considered an enemy, and neither should businesses be seen as such&#8230;</p>
<p>On your clarification of MCIT, I have reverted to actual financial statements, and corrected the post above.  While it seems the MCIT percentage was given as an explanation to me, the actual financial statements show a much larger gross income than you suggest (closer to 35%), a lot of legitimate operating expenses and deductions, a very minimal net income and 32% tax on that income.  </p>
<p>You are right in that margins were tight in the first year, but not as tight as you suggest. Meat/pork has some of the smallest margins of any major restaurant protein (beef perhaps being worse), that&#8217;s why you see so many chicken places.  Our retail price for lechon was on average, PHP450-490 when we opened and during our first year, and gross margins were just 20-25% of that.  Whole lechons have even more modest margins, as I am sure any BIR rep can calculate.  Of course we sold other food items that improved the overall margins.  If you were in Manila, and sold lechon at say PHP750-800 a kilo, you would be closer to your example of 50% you suggest.  It was expenses, including staffing, rent, etc. that brought net incomes down in our first year of operation.  In our second year, things change noticeably and I am hope they will improve in our third year&#8230;  If the BIR has to take ads out, wouldn&#8217;t it be helpful to list Purveyor, Total Sales, VAT paid, Other taxes paid and Income taxes paid?  Wouldn&#8217;t that present a better/clearer  picture, and a natural comparison amongst companies in a similar industry &#8212; rather than a shotgun approach? </p>
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